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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2024

23 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

We will of course consider the debate in and around the jury majority with sensitivity and in depth, and we will look at all the relevant issues and engage with all the relevant stakeholders. This is an area of the bill that involves finely balanced judgments. We need to proceed in a manner in which we all work together and give careful and deep consideration to the issue. I reiterate the importance of this part of the bill and I reiterate that the Government will reflect in detail on the wide range of comments that the committee has scrutinised.

The proposed victims and witnesses commissioner will provide an independent voice for victims and witnesses, champion their views and help to ensure that their interests are at the heart of the justice system. I note the committee’s reservations, particularly around resource and the impact on victim support organisations. However, I believe that the role can be established in a way that is cost efficient and which will enhance the work of support organisations rather than diminish or duplicate their efforts.

During the evidence sessions, lack of accountability was an issue that kept being raised. No existing public body or organisation has the statutory power to hold justice agencies to account in relation to how the rights of victims and witnesses are met or upheld, nor can that role be given to a third sector organisation. The commissioner will provide that accountability.

I turn to parts of the bill that focus on sexual offences and where there are mixed views. Both Lady Dorrian and the Lord Advocate emphasised that we need to make seismic and structural statutory changes to ensure that victims and survivors have meaningful access to justice. The bill does that through the creation of a new national sexual offences court. Complainers’ experiences will be improved through greater use of pre-recorded evidence, better judicial case management and mandatory trauma-informed training for all involved in the court. A new and distinct court will bring about the necessary shifts in culture, practice and procedure. Cases will be brought to trial more quickly through more efficient use of existing court and judicial resources, helping to reduce delay, which is a significant cause of distress and trauma for complainers.

Victims cannot afford for us to rely on the historical status and structure of the existing court system to deliver changes that we all agree are needed and which the status quo has singularly failed to deliver. If we fail to take ambitious action now, we risk consigning victims to unnecessary retraumatisation through a court system that is not sufficiently specialised or focused on improving victims’ experiences. That is a risk that I am not prepared to take. I recognise that the committee has concerns about certain aspects of the court, and I will work very hard with members and justice partners to address each one.

The bill enables a time-limited pilot of single-judge rape trials. The proposal for the pilot is informed by complainers’ experiences of the trial process, by numerous studies on rape myths and by the fact that the conviction rate for rape is consistently lower than the rate for other crimes. Soberingly, new data that is based on management information from the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service, and which we have included in our response to the stage 1 report, shows that, for the kind of cases that the pilot is intended to focus on—namely, single-charge, single-complainer rape and attempted rape cases—the five-year average conviction rate is just 24 per cent.

The purpose of the pilot is to provide much-needed evidence to let us have a properly informed debate on an enduring issue that undermines confidence in our criminal justice system. I acknowledge that there are differences of opinion on the court and the pilot. I will reflect on that, as I have already done in the response to the committee. I have intimated that I will lodge amendments at stage 2, and I will speak more about that in my closing remarks. However, it is clear that our justice system needs to change the way in which it responds to serious sexual offending.

As legislators, it is our role to determine the legal frameworks that ought to be in place, and no part of our justice system should be exempt from review and, if necessary, reconsideration.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12922, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
I open the debate with my thanks to the Criminal Justice Committee for its stage 1 report on the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill. It r...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way and for the remarks that she has just placed on the record, because this is a significant issue. In he...
Angela Constance SNP
We will of course consider the debate in and around the jury majority with sensitivity and in depth, and we will look at all the relevant issues and engage w...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
The cabinet secretary already knows my position on juryless trials, so I will not reprise that. However, I would like clarification that the proposal is for ...
Angela Constance SNP
I can give clarification to Ms Grahame that the pilot, whatever form it takes, is to look at rape and attempted rape cases. I have already given commitments ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I now call Audrey Nicoll to speak on behalf of the Criminal Justice Committee. 14:15
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
I am very pleased to speak in this afternoon’s debate on behalf of the Criminal Justice Committee. I extend the committee’s sincere thanks to the clerking te...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the Criminal Justice Committee team for their assistance and not least for the unseen work of the eternally patient researchers and clerks. Committee...
Christine Grahame SNP
Will the member accept an intervention?
Russell Findlay Con
I will.
Christine Grahame SNP
I thank the member for his tone and for his thoughtful contribution. There you are. When I was in practice as a civil practitioner many moons ago, that alr...
Russell Findlay Con
I thank the member for her intervention and have dialled down my flamboyance for her today. I agree. The member speaks to a point that is a recurring theme,...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I sincerely thank my colleagues on the Criminal Justice Committee and the committee clerks for what is an excellent report. The convener outlined its content...
Angela Constance SNP
I wonder whether Pauline McNeill is aware of the written evidence of the senators of the College of Justice, in which they said that, despite the new jury di...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I acknowledge that, but I hope that the cabinet secretary agrees that some progress has been made, in that judges are now expected, in every case, to talk ab...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Does Pauline McNeill believe that a 24 per cent conviction rate in single-charge rape cases is acceptable?
Pauline McNeill Lab
No, I do not. In case the member has misunderstood my point, the Government has said throughout that it is not specifically aiming to increase conviction rat...
Christine Grahame SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pauline McNeill Lab
Is there any time in hand?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes—there is a limited amount of time in hand.
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will take an intervention from Christine Grahame.
Christine Grahame SNP
I am not on the committee, and I do not understand section 65(1), which says: “The Scottish Ministers may, by regulations, provide that trials on indictment...
Pauline McNeill Lab
That is one of the things that the Government has responded to—it will put the specified criteria into the bill. That is what I was trying to speak to, becau...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I greatly enjoyed my time on the Justice Committee in the previous session and often find myself missing it, but I do not envy Audrey Nicoll and her colleagu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:54
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Getting the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill to this stage has been a marathon. As a member of the Criminal Justice Committee, I too th...
Russell Findlay Con
Does the member share the concerns that others have expressed about there being too much in one bill?
Rona Mackay SNP
There is no doubt that it is a big bill, but we have taken a long time to scrutinise it and have heard a great deal of evidence. I agree that it is huge, but...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank members for their valuable contributions thus far. It is fair to say that the bill has been on a bit of a journey, perhaps much like my own from the ...