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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 May 2024

15 May 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Teaching
Kidd, Bill SNP Glasgow Anniesland Watch on SPTV

I thank my committee colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing forward today’s debate. Her genuine commitment to our education system has always been clear. Another colleague who, I hope we agree, has a genuine commitment to improving our education system is the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. Positive contributions here and before the committee demonstrate that both of them have a willingness to work co-operatively in search of the best possible outcomes for our teachers and learners alike.

That attitude is reflected in the Government’s motion, which accepts concern about the possibility of the loss of teachers and commits to engaging with parties across the Parliament to hear views on how best to meet those challenges. I hope that the other speakers today will take the opportunity to commit their parties to that.

Of course, actions speak louder than words. For today’s debate, it is important to recognise and welcome the Scottish Government’s additional funding of more than £145 million, which is specifically targeted at maintaining teacher numbers and clearly demonstrates commitment.

It is also important to put on the record a number of points that further demonstrate this Government’s commitment to education. In 2021-22, education spend in Scotland was £1,758 per person compared with £1,439 in England and £1,680 in Wales. Scotland’s pupil teacher ratio is the lowest in the UK. The overall PTR in Scotland is currently 13.2, which is the lowest that it has been since 2009. That compares with PTRs of 18 in England, 18.4 in Wales and 17.4 in Northern Ireland. Scotland has the most teachers per pupil in the UK, with 7,485 teachers per 100,000 pupils compared with 5,545 in England and 5,038 in Wales. Scotland’s teachers are also the best paid in the UK.

Therefore, although I, along with the Government, recognise concerns about possible reductions in teacher numbers—it is very important that we look at that—it is important to balance that concern by highlighting those real achievements.

The learning and working environment is important in attracting and retaining teachers; it must also ensure a welcoming and safe place for learners. Since 2007, the percentage of schools in Scotland that are in good or satisfactory condition has increased from 61 per cent to more than 90 per cent, and the £1.8 billion schools for the future programme has delivered 117 new or refurbished schools across Scotland between 2009 and 2021. Those are, once again, achievements that we should recognise and welcome as part of the debate.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13196, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on standing up for teaching. I invite members who wish to partic...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to bring the debate to the chamber, because, as I have said before, education is a great leveller when it is done well. When teachers are suppor...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I welcome this afternoon’s debate during Labour Party business. As the First Minister set out last week, we are in new, although not uncharted, territory as ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary agree that it is strange that members of the teaching profession are expected to buy so much stuff for their classrooms to ensure ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I thank Martin Whitfield for his intervention. I do not think that the issues that he is raising are particularly new or nuanced. That has happened over the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to do so, although I am conscious of the time.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Is the cabinet secretary therefore concerned that the Government is missing many of its targets to recruit teachers in particularly important secondary schoo...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Yes, I am deeply concerned about that point. All of us in the chamber have a responsibility to ensure that we have more people coming into the teaching profe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am conscious of the time, and there is much more that I would like to say. However, I have an ask of the Opposition today. Minority Government gives Opposi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
We will vote for the Labour motion because, in a Scotland-wide context in which teacher numbers are down by more than 1,000 since the SNP came to power and t...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The Greens will be supporting the Labour motion. I was very proud that, three years ago, when we entered Government, we came to an agreement with our SNP col...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Just imagine what the world would have been like if Ross Greer had been in government for the past three years. Conditions in schools are really challenging...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie LD
Will those people face the dole queue as a result of that failure to plan adequately? I would like to hear from the cabinet secretary how on earth she will r...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Last year, I joined members of the Educational Institute of Scotland and Unison on picket lines in their campaign for fair pay. Not a single person wanted to...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I was in the classroom.
Colin Smyth Lab
The cabinet secretary was not personally in the Government, but I am sure that she voted for the Government. The Government needs to start listening and del...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I thank my committee colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing forward today’s debate. Her genuine commitment to our education system has always been clear. A...
Liam Kerr Con
I am listening to all the things that the member is trotting out. However, the Education, Children and Young People Committee published a report this morning...
Bill Kidd SNP
Like the cabinet secretary, I am all ears. Unfortunately, in my case, that is a physical characteristic. Anyway, I am carrying on saying what I am saying. W...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
Nicola Sturgeon said: “If you are not, as First Minister, prepared to put your neck on the line on the education of our young people then what are you prepa...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Over the past few months, my inbox has been inundated with emails from constituents who are concerned about the future of education in Glasgow under this Gov...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
On a point of fact, the Scottish Government has funded in full the developing the young workforce arrangements for Glasgow on the same basis as the rest of t...
Paul Sweeney Lab
I am afraid that that is not the position that the GMB trade union has taken. I went to a meeting with young representatives of educational establishments in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The final speaker in the open debate will be Ben Macpherson. 15:43
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
Colleagues will appreciate that, as I am an Edinburgh MSP, I will not comment specifically on the situation in Glasgow. I have heard the concerns that colle...
Sue Webber Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Ben Macpherson SNP
I will take a brief one.