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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 May 2024

15 May 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Teaching

Just imagine what the world would have been like if Ross Greer had been in government for the past three years.

Conditions in schools are really challenging, and I think that the education secretary knows that. The report that the Education, Children and Young People Committee published this morning highlights that additional support for learning is now in an intolerable position. Pupils are being forced to fail because of the gap between the rhetoric and the reality. Teachers now have to deal with multiple needs in one class. Sometimes, up to half of the whole class can be identified as having an additional support need. That puts incredible pressure on teachers. That, combined with the behavioural issues that we all know about that lead to violence and low-level disruption, interrupts education.

Then there is absence. Pupils are regularly absent from the classroom and teachers have to spend a lot of time trying to get them to catch up. Newly qualified teachers can spend up to six years on temporary contracts. That all adds up to an intolerable position and it is why we are seeing teachers facing burn-out and considerable mental health problems.

I like the cabinet secretary’s approach of reaching out to other parties. I have to remind her, however, that this is not year zero and that the Government has been there for 17 years, so she will forgive us for holding her to account for its performance in that 17 years.

The most recent set of promises in the 2021 election raised expectations among teachers that there would be free school meals, free laptops, lots of extra teachers and a reduction in teacher contact time. Most of that has fallen away, because we are nowhere near getting those 3,500 teachers. In fact, we are going in the opposite direction, partly thanks to the cabinet secretary’s colleague in Glasgow City Council, who has obviously not got the memo and is reducing teacher numbers.

This is not just the Opposition being wicked; it is the reality facing local government, because the Government has made significant cuts. On the one hand, it says that we have to increase teacher numbers, but, on the other hand, it has decreased the overall funding that is available for local authorities.

Expectations have been raised, teachers are now feeling really disappointed and, to be frank, they are not listening to the education secretary any more. That is because this is not the first time—we have been here before. Back in 2007, we were promised that class sizes would be 18 or fewer for primary 1, 2 and 3, and 3,000 extra teachers were promised. Both of those promises were quickly dumped when the Government was faced with reality.

However, the most curious thing that I am interested in exploring—I hope that the cabinet secretary will address this in her summing up—is the latest research paper on reducing teacher contact time by 90 minutes. It has not been endorsed by the Government, but it has been produced under the Government’s auspices. All of a sudden, the Government has discovered this new wheeze in that, because the pupil roll is falling, first in primary schools and then in secondary schools, we might not need to recruit another 3,500 extra teachers in order to meet the 90-minute reduction in teacher contact time. I am wondering why that has suddenly just been discovered. Surely the Government knew that in 2021, when it made the promise. Why on earth did it make the promise to recruit 3,500 extra teachers in 2021? Surely it did its homework and worked out that the pupil roll was falling.

More important, what does that mean for all those who are being trained through initial teacher education just now? On the 3,500 extra teachers, we are not quite reaching that with secondary schools, but we certainly are with primary schools.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13196, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on standing up for teaching. I invite members who wish to partic...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to bring the debate to the chamber, because, as I have said before, education is a great leveller when it is done well. When teachers are suppor...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I welcome this afternoon’s debate during Labour Party business. As the First Minister set out last week, we are in new, although not uncharted, territory as ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary agree that it is strange that members of the teaching profession are expected to buy so much stuff for their classrooms to ensure ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I thank Martin Whitfield for his intervention. I do not think that the issues that he is raising are particularly new or nuanced. That has happened over the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to do so, although I am conscious of the time.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Is the cabinet secretary therefore concerned that the Government is missing many of its targets to recruit teachers in particularly important secondary schoo...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Yes, I am deeply concerned about that point. All of us in the chamber have a responsibility to ensure that we have more people coming into the teaching profe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am conscious of the time, and there is much more that I would like to say. However, I have an ask of the Opposition today. Minority Government gives Opposi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
We will vote for the Labour motion because, in a Scotland-wide context in which teacher numbers are down by more than 1,000 since the SNP came to power and t...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The Greens will be supporting the Labour motion. I was very proud that, three years ago, when we entered Government, we came to an agreement with our SNP col...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Just imagine what the world would have been like if Ross Greer had been in government for the past three years. Conditions in schools are really challenging...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie LD
Will those people face the dole queue as a result of that failure to plan adequately? I would like to hear from the cabinet secretary how on earth she will r...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Last year, I joined members of the Educational Institute of Scotland and Unison on picket lines in their campaign for fair pay. Not a single person wanted to...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I was in the classroom.
Colin Smyth Lab
The cabinet secretary was not personally in the Government, but I am sure that she voted for the Government. The Government needs to start listening and del...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I thank my committee colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing forward today’s debate. Her genuine commitment to our education system has always been clear. A...
Liam Kerr Con
I am listening to all the things that the member is trotting out. However, the Education, Children and Young People Committee published a report this morning...
Bill Kidd SNP
Like the cabinet secretary, I am all ears. Unfortunately, in my case, that is a physical characteristic. Anyway, I am carrying on saying what I am saying. W...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
Nicola Sturgeon said: “If you are not, as First Minister, prepared to put your neck on the line on the education of our young people then what are you prepa...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Over the past few months, my inbox has been inundated with emails from constituents who are concerned about the future of education in Glasgow under this Gov...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
On a point of fact, the Scottish Government has funded in full the developing the young workforce arrangements for Glasgow on the same basis as the rest of t...
Paul Sweeney Lab
I am afraid that that is not the position that the GMB trade union has taken. I went to a meeting with young representatives of educational establishments in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The final speaker in the open debate will be Ben Macpherson. 15:43
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
Colleagues will appreciate that, as I am an Edinburgh MSP, I will not comment specifically on the situation in Glasgow. I have heard the concerns that colle...
Sue Webber Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Ben Macpherson SNP
I will take a brief one.