Committee
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 07 May 2024
07 May 2024 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Food Standards Scotland
I am conscious that there is loads to cover, but I want to focus on ultra-processed foods. Henry Dimbleby and Jemima Lewis were co-authors of a book called “Ravenous”. Recently, Henry Dimbleby gave a presentation at the shaping the science for the Scotland’s food future event at Dynamic Earth. It was really interesting to hear him talk about his research and his work on a proposed food strategy. We know that the food system is really complicated, but is it a good idea to replace Scottish lamb and Scottish beef that are produced to high welfare standards with meat replacements containing chemicals such as stabilisers, emulsifiers, xanthan gum, guar gum, colours, flavourings and stuff that has been labelled as “industrially created enteric substances”? Is that really food? Given that we produce meat to the best welfare standards, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on replacing that with ultra-processed food that has unpronounceable chemicals in it, and how that links with, for example, the issue of the high levels of fat, sugar and salt in food.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
The third item on our agenda is an evidence session with Food Standards Scotland. I welcome to the committee Heather Kelman, chair; Geoff Ogle, chief executi...
Heather Kelman (Food Standards Scotland)
Good morning, convener, and members of the committee. I know some of you quite well, but I recognise that the committee membership has been refreshed since o...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, Ms Kelman. We move straight to questions.
Emma Harper
SNP
Good morning to the witnesses. From what you have just described, Food Standards Scotland’s remit is pretty huge and broad-ranging, and I am really intereste...
Geoff Ogle (Food Standards Scotland)
That is an interesting and complicated subject. To be clear, we focused on risk assessment and were asked by ministers to look at the dietary implications of...
Dr Gillian Purdon (Food Standards Scotland)
I can talk about the existing recommendations. As Geoff Ogle said, Scotland has a set of dietary goals, one of which is about red meat and processed red meat...
Emma Harper
SNP
There are alternatives to meat. I looked up what 70g means. A plate of spaghetti bolognese has about 100g of meat; a quarter pounder beef burger has 90g. I w...
Dr Purdon
As has been mentioned, we provide advice through the “Eatwell Guide”. We have a model diet for a week, and the amount of meat in that is well below 70g a day...
Heather Kelman
I will add a little to that. On our website, we have a tool called “Eat Well, Your Way”, which gives advice to individual consumers on how to nudge their die...
The Convener
SNP
I point out to our witnesses that they do not need to do anything to make the microphones work—broadcasting staff do that.
Emma Harper
SNP
I am conscious that there is loads to cover, but I want to focus on ultra-processed foods. Henry Dimbleby and Jemima Lewis were co-authors of a book called ...
Heather Kelman
Gillian, do you want to take that to start with, or will I?
Dr Purdon
Go on, Geoff.
Geoff Ogle
There is a lot of debate and discussion about ultra-processed foods at the moment, and the board discussed the issue in March. It is a nuanced and complicate...
Dr Purdon
The classification of ultra-processed food comes from the Nova classification, in which there are four different groups. The first group is unprocessed—your ...
Gillian Mackay
Green
I think that Emma has covered most of what I was going to ask. Given the sort of issues that we have just covered around nutrients and reducing recommended a...
Heather Kelman
One of the things that Food Standards Scotland has become very aware of is that we must understand the targeting of messages. Our corporate communications de...
Geoff Ogle
We have also looked at the design of our website. We have done quite a lot of research on how it is currently structured and what changes we can make to it—p...
Dr Purdon
Particularly when it comes to diet, there is a big say-do gap. For example, although a lot of people know the message around five a day—the number of portion...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I declare an interest, in that I am a practising NHS GP. I am a bit disappointed to hear that the issue of a reduction in red meat is due to the climate repo...
Heather Kelman
We have not looked specifically at Greggs. We have raised concerns about the proximity of high fat, salt and sugar food outlets close to schools, and the nee...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I will come back to schools. I do not particularly want to start banning things, but let us look at a meal deal from a supermarket. You get a sandwich, a dri...
Dr Purdon
I am happy to come in on that. At the moment, the Scottish Government is consulting on restricting promotions of foods high in fat, salt and sugar. The consu...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
On that point, the supermarket knows everything about me through all my cards. I do not know, but they might even track the way that I walk through the super...
Dr Purdon
Yes, that is a good point. The legislation is looking at restricting putting unhealthy foods in position points such as checkouts, the ends of aisles and oth...
Geoff Ogle
I would just add that there is a broader question around the food environment. You are absolutely right about the placing of product; there is no doubt that ...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
Certainly, a lot of people who speak to me say that Irn Bru has been ruined by reformulation. Laughter. This is a big topic and it is not fair to give you j...
Dr Purdon
Recently, the scientific advisory committee on nutrition has put out new recommendations for one to five-year-olds, and we are currently working on that with...
Emma Harper
SNP
I have a wee supplementary question. One of the questions in the Scottish Government’s consultation was about restricting the sale of foods with high levels ...
Dr Purdon
As far as I am aware—yes—we can absolutely support that.