Committee
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting) 01 May 2024
01 May 2024 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Item of business
Drug Deaths and Drug Harm
Given that we set the MAT standards, we want everybody who accesses the service to get that service at the highest quality, and we want people to be informed about the choices that they have. The MAT standards are included in that. I mentioned mental health and dependency, and there is a specific MAT standard to tackle that issue. We are working closely. The advice that I was given by both previous ministers in the role was to keep driving up the MAT standards and make sure that the budget is protected. Those were two very good pieces of advice to me as I came into the role. We published in 2021, and work is going on across the board to drive up the standards, not just in health but in all services. It is really a way of pushing forward the idea that the issue is one of health and it should be treated as such, and that people should have a high quality of service. It is a bit of a change for people who deliver the services—particularly in health boards—as regards how we increase all the standards in the way that we want to and give people the choices that they need in order to make the right decisions for their health. We are also applying the MAT standards to justice settings. In relation to the points that Russell Findlay made earlier about what is happening in prisons, I add that we have prison to rehab, which is covered by the MAT standards as well. We hope to make sure that everyone is covered. Great progress has been made. There is a great diagram that allows me to see immediately where we are. It shows red, amber and green statuses. Much of the work is coloured green or amber, so real progress is being made, particularly on MAT standards 1 to 5. Progress is also being made on standards 6 to 10. There are some challenges, particularly in rural areas and areas where there is a high incidence of issues that we need to face. However, I see things moving on quite markedly now, and I see, hear and understand that when I meet people. They understand it, too. When I was in Blackburn on Monday, I was asked whether the health improvement, efficiency, access and treatment—or HEAT—targets do not work well with MAT standards under a trauma-informed approach. I will take that point away and look at it. It might be that we have frameworks or standards that do not quite work well together. I will consider that to see how we can use the MAT standards to push things forward in a more modern way.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our main item of business is to take evidence on the progress being made to tackle drug harm and reduce drug deaths. I am pleased to welcome our first panel ...
Kirsten Horsburgh (Scottish Drugs Forum)
Thank you very much for the invite to come back today. When we had the suspected and confirmed drug deaths figure for the year before last, there was some an...
The Convener
SNP
I am not aware that the specific issue of hospital admissions has been raised, highlighted or, indeed, discussed in our previous committee meetings. Do you h...
Kirsten Horsburgh
It is basically what I have explained: I do not have a clear answer for it, to be honest. More community work has taken place, but there is still a real resi...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. I am sure that other members will want to probe that a little more. I come to Justina Murray. In your comprehensive written submission, you state...
Justina Murray (Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs)
We talk about the implementation gap quite a lot—in fact, I talked about it when I was at committee last year. In Scotland, we have quite a progressive appro...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you—there is a lot in there. That brings me neatly to my next question, for Dr Fletcher, which is on a whole-system approach. Your submission, on beha...
Dr Emma Fletcher
A whole-system approach is imperative. It has been clearly reflected across national and local discussions that it is not down to one agency, organisation or...
The Convener
SNP
You mentioned issues such as housing and employment. I noticed that you outlined in your submission that the “vast majority of people who are affected by dr...
Dr Fletcher
That would be incredibly helpful. My colleagues beside me will also be able to give examples of how elements of the system that we work in are not quite as r...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, everyone. I will bring in other members now.
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning. I am interested in the statistics on male deaths, as that issue seems to be one of the big problems. Has any work been done to try to understan...
Dr Fletcher
We are seeing a changing pattern with regard to drug deaths and the impact on men and women. For many years, we had predominantly seen drug deaths impacting ...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Does anybody else want to answer that question?
Kirsten Horsburgh
On a national level, it is absolutely still the case that males are more likely to die from drugs use. More males use drugs, so the population is larger. The...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
I was interested in the fact that, “In 2022, males were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death”. That was only two years ago. Dr Fletcher, I have to s...
Dr Fletcher
I am sorry, but can you repeat that?
Pauline McNeill
Lab
In my papers, it says: “In 2022, males were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death as females. Most of the decrease in the past year was in males.” I ...
Dr Fletcher
Yes.
Pauline McNeill
Lab
But it was only two years ago that men “were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death”.
Justina Murray
I am happy to jump in here. I think that Dr Fletcher was talking about Dundee statistics rather than national statistics—
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Oh, I see.
Justina Murray
Nationally speaking, 20 years ago, men were four or five times more likely to die than women, whereas they are now twice as likely to die. Women’s deaths are...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
That was helpful. I also note Kirsten Horsburgh’s comments about men being more likely to be homeless and all the factors that might lead them to be vulnerab...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
First, I have a quick question for Dr Fletcher. A drug consumption facility is coming to Glasgow, and Edinburgh appears to be next. Does Tayside have any pla...
Dr Fletcher
It is something that we are very interested in and are following closely. It will be useful to see the evaluation from Glasgow, as that will guide our approa...
Russell Findlay
Con
If the facility in Glasgow gets up and running in the summer, as we have been told might be the case, how long will it need to be in operation before you can...
Dr Fletcher
Again, it will be really helpful to see the evaluation, as that will guide how we might implement our approach to best effect. That is what we are looking for.
Russell Findlay
Con
Roughly, what kind of timescale would provide useful data? Would it be a year, or six months?
Dr Fletcher
It depends entirely on how the approach is implemented, the feedback that is received, the expansion of MAT standards nationally and all the priorities that ...