Committee
Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting) 01 May 2024
01 May 2024 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)
Item of business
Drug Deaths and Drug Harm
Thanks very much, convener, and good morning, colleagues. Thank you for having me along to your committee and giving me the opportunity to update you on work that is under way through our national mission to reduce the number of drug related deaths and harms. I have been in post now for nearly three months, so I am not quite new, convener. I thank my predecessors for laying a solid foundation on which I am able to build, and thank all the people working in the sector across Scotland. I have had the privilege and pleasure of meeting many of them over the past few weeks. Since taking on the portfolio, I have made clear my commitment on continuing our national mission, following the evidence of what works to reduce the number of drug deaths while ensuring that we are providing a full range of treatment options, so that individuals are able to obtain support wherever they are with their substance use and recovery journey. I have been clear in my desire to approach the matter in a cross-party and cross-United Kingdom manner. Problem substance use has no respect for borders, and, with some of the challenges that we face, along with the new threats related to synthetic opioids, it is vital that we work together to tackle all of those. In the short time that I have been in post, I have met a range of stakeholders and people who are directly affected by substance use—those using substances, their families and friends and people who generally just love them. I have heard and learned a lot about the issues that most impact all of their lives. Recently, I had a visit to the Bothy in Craigmillar—one of the first visits that I made in Edinburgh—to hear from peer mentors about the work that they are doing in that community to support people, which is incredibly inspirational. When communities, particularly recovery communities and others, come together with local and national organisations and the statutory sector, you can see real change and hope for people in their lives. What really touched me that day was the hope. Peer mentors who live, work and support people in those communities have lived experience. One of the people who is using that service said to me that, when they take the big step to walk through the door, it is really helpful that somebody on the other side is saying, “I understand. I know where you are. I’ve been there.” That is incredibly powerful. The other part of that is about how we engage with and support the workforce. I was really pleased to be in the Glasgow city chambers the other week at the graduation ceremony for the people who were undertaking the addiction worker training, which will now be renamed as a national traineeship. The hope, joy, dedication and commitment, and the opportunity for those people to go into the workforce and support the work that we need to do, was very clear on that day. I was sad to leave—I had to come back to the Parliament to vote—but it was a joy to be in the room with so many people who had taken their experience and turned it into a qualification and will now use that to be in the workforce. Just to see how proud their families were was absolutely amazing. It is clear that the national mission has changed how we think about these issues and how we respond to them, which is not least due to the work of the many partners who are driving this forward, including those whom you have just heard from earlier today. I managed to catch some of the brilliant evidence that the previous witnesses gave you on the work that they are doing and the challenges that they give me, as a Government minister, to do more and better. The change is also due to the work of Dr Priyadarshi, who is beside me today and who is a real champion for this work. You will be very privileged and honoured to hear his evidence today, too. 11:30 Nevertheless, after welcoming the reduction last year, we have seen a rise in suspected drug-related death figures, and I do not take any of that unseriously; I take it very seriously. That is coupled with the very real threat that we are now seeing of new substances and behaviours. It is vital that my focus remains on delivering what the evidence says works and making sure that it has the effect that, I think, we all want. I will finish there, convener, because I know that you have a lot of questions. I and, no doubt, Dr Priyadarshi will be happy to answer your questions. Thank you very much for having me along.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our main item of business is to take evidence on the progress being made to tackle drug harm and reduce drug deaths. I am pleased to welcome our first panel ...
Kirsten Horsburgh (Scottish Drugs Forum)
Thank you very much for the invite to come back today. When we had the suspected and confirmed drug deaths figure for the year before last, there was some an...
The Convener
SNP
I am not aware that the specific issue of hospital admissions has been raised, highlighted or, indeed, discussed in our previous committee meetings. Do you h...
Kirsten Horsburgh
It is basically what I have explained: I do not have a clear answer for it, to be honest. More community work has taken place, but there is still a real resi...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. I am sure that other members will want to probe that a little more. I come to Justina Murray. In your comprehensive written submission, you state...
Justina Murray (Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs)
We talk about the implementation gap quite a lot—in fact, I talked about it when I was at committee last year. In Scotland, we have quite a progressive appro...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you—there is a lot in there. That brings me neatly to my next question, for Dr Fletcher, which is on a whole-system approach. Your submission, on beha...
Dr Emma Fletcher
A whole-system approach is imperative. It has been clearly reflected across national and local discussions that it is not down to one agency, organisation or...
The Convener
SNP
You mentioned issues such as housing and employment. I noticed that you outlined in your submission that the “vast majority of people who are affected by dr...
Dr Fletcher
That would be incredibly helpful. My colleagues beside me will also be able to give examples of how elements of the system that we work in are not quite as r...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, everyone. I will bring in other members now.
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning. I am interested in the statistics on male deaths, as that issue seems to be one of the big problems. Has any work been done to try to understan...
Dr Fletcher
We are seeing a changing pattern with regard to drug deaths and the impact on men and women. For many years, we had predominantly seen drug deaths impacting ...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Does anybody else want to answer that question?
Kirsten Horsburgh
On a national level, it is absolutely still the case that males are more likely to die from drugs use. More males use drugs, so the population is larger. The...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
I was interested in the fact that, “In 2022, males were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death”. That was only two years ago. Dr Fletcher, I have to s...
Dr Fletcher
I am sorry, but can you repeat that?
Pauline McNeill
Lab
In my papers, it says: “In 2022, males were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death as females. Most of the decrease in the past year was in males.” I ...
Dr Fletcher
Yes.
Pauline McNeill
Lab
But it was only two years ago that men “were twice as likely to have a drug misuse death”.
Justina Murray
I am happy to jump in here. I think that Dr Fletcher was talking about Dundee statistics rather than national statistics—
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Oh, I see.
Justina Murray
Nationally speaking, 20 years ago, men were four or five times more likely to die than women, whereas they are now twice as likely to die. Women’s deaths are...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
That was helpful. I also note Kirsten Horsburgh’s comments about men being more likely to be homeless and all the factors that might lead them to be vulnerab...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
First, I have a quick question for Dr Fletcher. A drug consumption facility is coming to Glasgow, and Edinburgh appears to be next. Does Tayside have any pla...
Dr Fletcher
It is something that we are very interested in and are following closely. It will be useful to see the evaluation from Glasgow, as that will guide our approa...
Russell Findlay
Con
If the facility in Glasgow gets up and running in the summer, as we have been told might be the case, how long will it need to be in operation before you can...
Dr Fletcher
Again, it will be really helpful to see the evaluation, as that will guide how we might implement our approach to best effect. That is what we are looking for.
Russell Findlay
Con
Roughly, what kind of timescale would provide useful data? Would it be a year, or six months?
Dr Fletcher
It depends entirely on how the approach is implemented, the feedback that is received, the expansion of MAT standards nationally and all the priorities that ...