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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 April 2024

30 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I, too, thank Gillian Mackay and her team for all the work that has been done on the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. It is extremely difficult to get a bill to stage 1, so I say well done on that. There has been productive cross-party dialogue through the contributions that have been made on the bill.

The core intent of the legislation is to create safe access zones that would act as a buffer between women who are accessing safe and legal services at abortion clinics and anti-abortion demonstrators. The zones would exist to help to ensure that women can access the vital services that are provided at the abortion clinics without the fear or harassment that is often experienced through their interactions with anti-abortion protesters.

For context, the UK Parliament has already adopted similar legislation to create buffer zones around abortion clinics in England and Wales, through the Public Order Act 2023. I understand that, as is often the case with any issues regarding aspects of abortion, that legislation has created division and competing claims of the infringement of human rights.

Women must have the right to access healthcare uninhibited by the fear or feelings of judgment or harassment that they often experience. In many cases, such feelings that are caused by protests outside abortion clinics prevent women from accessing those crucial services altogether at a time when they are making what is often already a very difficult decision.

I have also heard the concerns of the bill’s critics, who claim that anti-abortion protesters would have their rights to freedom of religion and speech restricted if they were deemed to be acting in a certain manner within the proposed zones and would be penalised for expressing their views. However, such arguments have often been based on articles 9, 10 and 11 of the ECHR, for example, and, notably, that argument was rejected by the UK Supreme Court, which, in its unanimous ruling, stated that similar legislation in Northern Ireland was compatible with the convention rights of protesters.

That is in addition to questions about the specific size of the zones which, as we have heard, falls between 150m and 200m, depending on individual circumstances. The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has urged that Scottish Government ministers undertake a “human rights proportionality assessment” when making a decision to increase or decrease the radius of the safe zones. Consequently, the committee further recommended that the bill be amended to outline the process that would result in any such zone being extended or reduced, and to provide that any such decisions should be made in consultation with service providers and relevant stakeholders.

Along with my Scottish Conservative colleagues, I believe that women who access abortion services should never feel that they are subject to the harassment or intimidation that anti-abortion protesters outside abortion clinics often pose. The feelings that are caused by such anti-abortion protesters can have, and often do have, the effect of discouraging women from exercising their right to access healthcare. Abortion services are no exception.

Moreover, I believe in the right to protest, and people will still be free to protest outside the zones. That is because the bill does not set out to prevent anti-abortion demonstrators from exercising their rights under articles 9, 10 or 11 outwith these specifically designated safe access zones. However, their right to protest cannot come at the expense of a woman’s right to access healthcare services as she sees fit.

I will support the general principles of the bill this evening, along with my fellow Scottish Conservatives, and will work constructively on amendments to the bill. Ultimately, the bill is proportionate and strikes the right balance between guaranteeing women’s access to the legal and vital healthcare services that are provided by abortion clinics and the rights of anti-abortion protesters to express their views. I welcome further dialogue with Gillian Mackay and others from across the chamber on how we can make the bill better.

15:55  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13015, in the name of Gillian Mackay, on the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill at sta...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Health, Social ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Gillian Mackay for giving way and I thank her for her leadership on this very important and excellent bill. Ms Mackay was kind enough to mee...
Gillian Mackay Green
I will come to some of the things that Mr Cole-Hamilton and I discussed shortly. As, I hope, the chamber will understand, much of the report’s detail is st...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to Gillian Mackay for not being able to speak to her ahead of making this intervention. The stage 1 report was fascinating, and Ms Mackay has my ...
Gillian Mackay Green
Absolutely. I reassure Mr Doris that the number of sites that are currently protected represents those that are designated under the Abortion Act 1967. Any o...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 14:47
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests in that I hold a bank nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. As convener of th...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the member think that the police will be able to put such an exemption into practice with regard to what is silent prayer and what is somebody simply re...
Clare Haughey SNP
Mr Mason’s point reflects some of the discussions that the committee had and some of the evidence that we received, regarding silent prayer, both from people...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
I advise members that we are very tight for time this afternoon, so members will have to accommodate any interventions in their speaking time allocations. ...
The Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health (Jenni Minto) SNP
It is my privilege to support the bill. I thank the committee for its consideration. The bill raises important issues and I appreciate its thorough and thoug...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
On the same topic that I raised with Gillian Mackay, which was the potential reduction of the size of the buffer zones, does the minister recognise that thos...
Jenni Minto SNP
I recognise what Mr Cole-Hamilton says, and I am happy to have further discussions with him on that. Today, because it is a source of particular concern fo...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
How will we police that?
Jenni Minto SNP
If Mr Gulhane will allow me, I am just coming on to that in my speech. I can whole-heartedly say that that is not the case, because, again, only the impact ...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. For the past few weeks, my inbox has been full of letters from constit...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
Does Meghan Gallacher agree that women have been silently judged for hundreds of years in going about their daily life? The bill will seek to address that in...
Meghan Gallacher Con
Good points are raised by Elena Whitham. For me, it is about ensuring that women have safe access to those clinics. That is the fundamental principle of the ...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate for Scottish Labour, I thank the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for producing its stage 1 report, the clerks for assisting the...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
On behalf of the Green Party group, I congratulate our colleague and friend Gillian Mackay on introducing the bill to the Parliament, and I congratulate all ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I congratulate Ms Mackay on her leadership on the subject—as I did in my intervention. I also thank action groups such as Back Off Scotland and other stakeho...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 15:27
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a very important debate, and I thank Gillian Mackay for all her work, as well as her office, her bill team and the Health, Social Care and Sport Comm...
Gillian Mackay Green
Will Rona Mackay reflect on the fact that, because of how healthcare is delivered in Scotland, a whole load more services are affected by protests in Scotlan...
Rona Mackay SNP
I completely agree with that. The unintended consequences of the protests are off the scale. The view reflected that of many individuals and organisations t...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as I am a practising national health service general practitioner. It is importa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Deputy Presiding Officer, I thank you for the opportunity to speak. For once, I mean that. I realise that my views and those of the people for whom I speak t...
Elena Whitham SNP
Will John Mason give way?
John Mason SNP
Let me just finish this point. I hope that it is possible to discuss the subject and bill in a calm and reasoned way, even though I accept that just discuss...