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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2024

12 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about this issue for years, and we have demanded action from the Scottish Government, which has not come. As the committee report states,

“Progress with cladding remediation programme in Scotland has been slow, with just one building out of 105 so far having remediation works carried out. The Scottish Government has introduced this Bill in order to address some of the issues behind these delays.”

There is a sharp contrast between the pace of response here and in England. I do not seek to make any political capital out of that—it is just a fact. As far back as 2020, I and others, including Mr Balfour, were calling for a ban on combustible cladding in Scotland, but that appeared to be too difficult a concept to grasp. The lack of urgency here in Scotland is illustrated by this point from the committee report:

“the Scottish Government has committed to ensuring that all 105 buildings”

in its remediation programme

“are on a pathway to a single building assessment by summer 2024. In contrast, as of December 2023, in England 1,608 buildings (42%) have either started or completed remediation works. Of these, 797 buildings (21%) have completed remediation works.”

It goes on to say:

“Of the £97m so far provided by the UK Government to the Scottish Government for the purposes of cladding remediation”,

just £7 million has been spent, which is 7 per cent.

Those issues have been known about for some time, but despite that, the bill is rushed. It suffers from vague language, which has no place in legislation. The Law Society of Scotland highlighted concerns about a lack of clarity around the definitions of “Development”, “Risk to human life”, “Undergone development” and “Premises”, and around the

“interrelationship between ‘single-building assessment’, ‘single-building assessment report’ and works.”

That is not good enough, and if the bill is to proceed, it must be vastly improved, but after listening to the minister earlier, I am not filled with much hope that it will be improved.

Secondary legislation has its place, but I do not like to see it overused. The committee says that it can allow some flexibility in the operation of the responsible developers scheme, but the lack of detail currently available creates significant concern for developers, and it quite rightly calls for the inclusion of greater detail in the primary legislation in relation to that scheme. Therefore, I expect the committee’s support if I lodge an amendment to that effect.

Members will know that I chair the tenement maintenance working group, which reported in the previous parliamentary session. We have been dealing with some of the issues that are covered in the committee’s excellent report. We reconvened this session, and we are working with the Scottish Law Commission, which is doing extensive work ahead of producing proposed legislation, probably in the next session. That is hardly a rush job.

I asked some of our experts to cast their eyes over the bill and suggest where it could be improved. We have alighted on section 6 of the bill, which gives the Scottish ministers power to arrange remediation work that has been identified in the single building assessment report as being needed to

“eliminate or mitigate risks to human life that are (directly or indirectly) created or exacerbated by the building’s external wall cladding system.”

However, SBAs that have been carried out under the pilot scheme have identified other fire safety-related works, such as a lack of adequate fire escapes. I will be looking at an amendment to tackle that.

Homes for Scotland has outlined some key and rather obvious concerns. It is not clear what a single building assessment actually is. The cladding assurance register is fine to keep a record of what properties have been remediated to date, but there is a lack of clarity on what information will be provided, the obligations of which parties are required to complete work for registration, who will be responsible for continual monitoring, and the timescales and scope for the inclusion of properties.

On the responsible developers scheme—again, we got no joy from the minister earlier on this—there is not enough information on how that might work and who is covered, but it gives the Scottish Government the ability to prevent businesses from operating in Scotland if they fail to comply with terms that are not yet known. That is not good enough, and that is quite different from the situation in England.

My view is that the bill as it stands is not good enough. I am disappointed by the minister’s response so far. I will very reluctantly support the bill’s general principles, but that support will expire if there are no improvements as the bill progresses.

15:57  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12450, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. The Grenfell tower tragedy provid...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will the minister give way?
Paul McLennan SNP
I will make some progress and come back to Mr Rennie, if that is okay. Since I was appointed as a minister I have engaged extensively with home owners and r...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister referred to the committee’s swift action; he is quite right about that. However, he cannot describe as swift the process that the Government has...
Paul McLennan SNP
In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery mo...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the criticisms of the responsible developers scheme, and of the bill in general, is a lack of clarity. For example, we do not have enough information ...
Paul McLennan SNP
The engagement process is key in the cladding role that I have taken on. I have met individual developers on a number of occasions, and we have had round-tab...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm to members that we have time in hand for interventions this afternoon. We will try to be generous in that regard. I call Ariane Burgess to spe...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
It is my pleasure to speak on behalf of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Sc...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided briefings, our committee clerks for their support on the report and the witnesses who have given important evide...
Graham Simpson Con
Does Miles Briggs agree that it is not just about ministers having reporting duties but about action, so that people actually get work done on their properti...
Miles Briggs Con
Absolutely. For so many people—whether it is those who gave evidence to the committee or our constituents—there is huge frustration about being kept in the d...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven year...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Over the years, the Government has shown a lot of unfounded confidence in its processes. Back in August 2021, when it launched the single building assessment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I ask those members seeking to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. 15:14
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report...
Graham Simpson Con
What does Willie Coffey understand by the phrase “tolerable risk”?
Willie Coffey SNP
It provides a degree of risk, so that a building is not just “safe” or “unsafe”. The feeling was that that could have brought many buildings within the regis...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to this important debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to today’s stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediatio...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The purpose of a stage 1 parliamentary debate is to agree the general principles of a bill, and I think that we can all agree with the general principles of ...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate. ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as someone who was a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee when its report scrutinising the bill was completed...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Let us start at the beginning. Other members have rightly said that the whole issue began when Grenfell tower turned into an inferno in June 2017, killing 72...
Paul McLennan SNP
On the point about a UK-wide remediation scheme, it was the UK Government that decided on an England-only approach. That was not a Scottish Government decisi...
Graham Simpson Con
I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about thi...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I note that there are 13 high-rise buildings in scope in the wider Falkirk district, none of which is in my Falkirk East constituency. However, I am interest...
Graham Simpson Con
Would the member want that level of detail in the bill?
Michelle Thomson SNP
It may be extremely difficult to have that. I accept that a lot of this is being worked through. I made a comment, which I stand by, about secondary legislat...