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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2024

12 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Allan, Dr Alasdair SNP Na h-Eileanan an Iar Watch on SPTV

Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate.

The issue of cladding on multistorey buildings might not strike people as being relevant to a constituency such as mine, where buildings more than three storeys in height are practically non-existent and even those with three storeys are in a small minority. However, as happens elsewhere, people in my constituency have families in the cities, so some of them are affected by the cladding issue, often financially.

I begin by outlining one such case, in anonymised form, which I hope will serve to illustrate the predicament that many families across Scotland have faced since the appalling tragedy at Grenfell. I believe that it points to a clear need for new legislation on the subject, such as the bill that we are debating, and that it makes the case for finding all possible new ways to expedite assistance, given the time that many people have already waited.

My constituent bought a small flat in a multistorey block in Glasgow, completing her purchase only a few weeks before the Grenfell disaster, in May 2017. Her intention was to use the flat as a home for her son, who was at university in the city, and that was how the flat was used initially. However, by the time that her son had completed his course, the legislation had changed, making the building impossible to let out and difficult to sell. That was because, under the new cladding legislation, the top two floors of the building above my constituent’s flat were found to have what had, by then, been identified as an unacceptable type of cladding, which had most likely been installed when the building had been converted from offices to flats. Although my constituent’s flat was not clad in that material, the whole building was, understandably, deemed to be affected until such time as the problem upstairs could be rectified by its owners—which it never was. My constituent realised that if she wanted to resell her flat, realistically that could now be done only by offering it to a cash buyer, as no lender would mortgage the property while the issue of the cladding on the floors above remained unresolved. The limited market that is available for a sale of that kind means that she is now looking at making a loss of £30,000 on the property, which would represent a major financial blow to her.

I have little doubt that other members will have constituents in similar situations. Indeed, we have already heard members alluding to some such examples during the debate. Therefore we clearly need legislation that will speed up the process of putting such situations right, which I believe the bill will do, to some extent, by addressing the present barriers to assessment and remediation work.

As other members have pointed out, aside from the safety issue, dangerous cladding has had serious consequences for many people. In addition to the sense of insecurity in one’s own home that the situation creates, it sometimes has crippling financial consequences. In response to such problems, the bill will create a cladding assurance register and a responsible developers scheme, while facilitating potential costs and sanctions if developers fail to comply.

As its programme for government laid out, the Scottish Government has introduced the bill with a further aim in mind: to create a new power to undertake urgent measures to remediate unsafe cladding that presents a risk to life. I would welcome anything that could achieve that end.

The Scottish Government is already seeking to identify and address unsafe cladding on buildings across Scotland, but I think that everyone would acknowledge the need to speed up that process. The Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill will accelerate that work and provide further reassurance and safeguards for owners and residents. The responsible developers scheme that the bill will create will also give some recognition to developers who are doing the right thing by working to remediate their buildings.

The Government has acknowledged the need to do more on communication, and I welcome the measures in the bill that seek to achieve that.

I hope that the bill, which was introduced at pace and is now undergoing extensive parliamentary scrutiny, will make a positive contribution to fixing a problem that all acknowledge has gone on for too long.

The problems are, of course, by no means unique to Scotland. In Wales, the Government there currently faces calls to release the remediation data on buildings with cladding that would allow for action.

The Scottish Government would not, I think, claim that the bill will solve every problem that is faced by every family who has been waiting for action on their property. However, I believe that the proposed legislation is a major contribution to breaking the logjam that has been creating such stress for so many people, including my own constituents and a great number more.

The tragedy at Grenfell was of such an order that it stands entirely on its own, but we all now have a duty to work together to find solutions to ensure that buildings in Scotland are safer to live in. We must also find ways of alleviating the unforeseen financial problems that so many families still face.

15:45  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12450, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. The Grenfell tower tragedy provid...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will the minister give way?
Paul McLennan SNP
I will make some progress and come back to Mr Rennie, if that is okay. Since I was appointed as a minister I have engaged extensively with home owners and r...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister referred to the committee’s swift action; he is quite right about that. However, he cannot describe as swift the process that the Government has...
Paul McLennan SNP
In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery mo...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the criticisms of the responsible developers scheme, and of the bill in general, is a lack of clarity. For example, we do not have enough information ...
Paul McLennan SNP
The engagement process is key in the cladding role that I have taken on. I have met individual developers on a number of occasions, and we have had round-tab...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm to members that we have time in hand for interventions this afternoon. We will try to be generous in that regard. I call Ariane Burgess to spe...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
It is my pleasure to speak on behalf of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Sc...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided briefings, our committee clerks for their support on the report and the witnesses who have given important evide...
Graham Simpson Con
Does Miles Briggs agree that it is not just about ministers having reporting duties but about action, so that people actually get work done on their properti...
Miles Briggs Con
Absolutely. For so many people—whether it is those who gave evidence to the committee or our constituents—there is huge frustration about being kept in the d...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven year...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Over the years, the Government has shown a lot of unfounded confidence in its processes. Back in August 2021, when it launched the single building assessment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I ask those members seeking to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. 15:14
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report...
Graham Simpson Con
What does Willie Coffey understand by the phrase “tolerable risk”?
Willie Coffey SNP
It provides a degree of risk, so that a building is not just “safe” or “unsafe”. The feeling was that that could have brought many buildings within the regis...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to this important debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to today’s stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediatio...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The purpose of a stage 1 parliamentary debate is to agree the general principles of a bill, and I think that we can all agree with the general principles of ...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate. ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as someone who was a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee when its report scrutinising the bill was completed...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Let us start at the beginning. Other members have rightly said that the whole issue began when Grenfell tower turned into an inferno in June 2017, killing 72...
Paul McLennan SNP
On the point about a UK-wide remediation scheme, it was the UK Government that decided on an England-only approach. That was not a Scottish Government decisi...
Graham Simpson Con
I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about thi...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I note that there are 13 high-rise buildings in scope in the wider Falkirk district, none of which is in my Falkirk East constituency. However, I am interest...
Graham Simpson Con
Would the member want that level of detail in the bill?
Michelle Thomson SNP
It may be extremely difficult to have that. I accept that a lot of this is being worked through. I made a comment, which I stand by, about secondary legislat...