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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2024

12 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery model. I will touch more on the pace as I go through my speech.

The programme has accumulated a significant amount of knowledge and understanding of the significant impact that potentially unsafe cladding is having on people’s lives, and of the lived experience of the barriers that we face in tackling the issue. The real-life experiences of all those who are affected by the risks and consequences of unsafe cladding are the impetus behind the provisions in the bill.

We need to remove any obstacles to progressing the necessary work that the Government and developers must do in the interests of public safety. However, it is equally important that the public has absolute confidence in the assessment and resulting works; in the ability and willingness of developers to participate in the remediation programme; and in the assurance arising from the completion of the works.

I turn to the scope of the assessment arrangements in the bill. The ministerial working group on mortgage lending and cladding was mindful of the complications that the Scottish tenure system would present to a programme such as ours and the potential far-reaching consequences of adapting the legal basis for the assessments. Such adaptations rightly require considerable examination and deliberation. The solution, therefore, is a basis for assessing all the risks that are presented by a building as a whole. Using established fire risk assessment methodology, it will be possible to specify criteria by which the fire safety risks of a whole building can be assessed. That work is in hand.

Last autumn, I commissioned a task and finish group to look at the single building assessment specification. I have agreed that PAS—publicly available specification—9980 will be the basis of the fire risk appraisal of external walls, albeit that it will be tailored to the Scottish context. We recognise that that is a critical enabler in setting the standard and propelling the pace of the programme.

The SBA specification is in development. It will include that component and a fire risk assessment, which will survey the internal fire safety measures, including internal compartmentation of buildings. Without a doubt, the highest standards of competence should be employed in carrying out the assessment of buildings. To that end, the bill seeks the power to specify the competency levels of those who undertake the SBA. Developers continue to be closely involved in discussions about the SBA and the specification through the SBA task and finish group. We are also engaging with other stakeholders on the development of that specification.

Reflecting our overwhelming desire and duty to protect life, we seek powers to prioritise access to buildings to carry out assessment and remediation. Indeed, our programme furthers the rights of both owners and occupiers to peaceful enjoyment of their property. We have assessed the impacts of the legislation and are satisfied that it fulfils our intentions in a compliant manner to ensure that there is an appropriate opportunity to challenge decisions. Stefano Pessina from Mizu Tenants Committee welcomed the bill, stating:

“It is good that it contains steps to stop residents who are owners who are perhaps blocking progress at the moment”. —[Official Report, Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, 23 January 2024; c 9.]

These powers are not sought lightly, and have been developed in the context of cladding specifically, and in direct response to barriers that were experienced during the pilot phase of our programme.

I turn to the cladding assurance register. Where an SBA report identifies risks to human life associated with a building’s external wall cladding system and works to mitigate or eliminate those risks, that building must be remediated accordingly.

The cladding assurance register is intended to be a record of buildings that have been through the single building assessment process and for which satisfactory remediation works identified in that assessment have, where required, been completed. That is key in ensuring that an accurate record of remediation works that are undertaken is maintained, and that those with an interest, such as lenders and insurers, can understand, and take assurance from, the scope of the works that are undertaken in each building.

I am conscious that the committee, as part of its consideration of the bill, raised a number of questions as to whether there could be merit in adding buildings to the register ahead of remediation works being completed. The register is not intended to highlight existing risks from cladding ahead of remediation, and I am mindful that that approach could, in fact, be counterproductive.?It is a long-standing principle of the programme that we do not release details of buildings or of any assessment or remediation works that are being undertaken in relation to them. That approach is in line with requests from?home owners and residents in order to protect their privacy and safety, and it reflects engagement with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service on how best we ensure safety and security.

I am also aware that the committee heard evidence that the cladding assurance register could be broadened to reflect wider issues of building or fire safety. My current view is that the register is, and must remain, focused on the risks that are posed by unsafe cladding and the remediation that is required to address that risk in order to preserve that internally consistent knowledge. That is the purpose of the bill.

We will of course reflect on the views and suggestions that have been shared ahead of stage 2 consideration of the bill, and we will engage directly with relevant stakeholders, including the Association of British Insurers, UK Finance, the SFRS and the High Rise Scotland Action Group, to understand how best to maximise the positive impacts of the register on their roles in the industry and in people’s lives.

I should add that financial services, including mortgage lending, are a reserved matter and that the Scottish Government will continue to raise with the United Kingdom Government the difficulties that are experienced by owners and prospective owners in accessing lending on buildings with potentially unsafe cladding.

I confirm that the Government intends to issue letters of confirmation to home owners of orphan buildings within the current pilot scheme. Developers, too, benefit from the register; they get the opportunity to restore public confidence in the safety of their buildings and the reputations of those who construct and refurbish them.

We have created in the legislation conditions under which developers can fully participate in remediation. The responsible developers scheme that we intend to create through secondary legislation will set the stage for developers to engage with our programme in the most constructive way. The UK Government has already established a responsible actors scheme, which has similar aims. Developers want to participate, as evidenced by the nine developer commitment letters that have been signed.

Naturally, we want to protect our construction industry from a tumultuous market, which is why we are looking to create a responsible developers scheme that can be flexible in the face of economic circumstances. We intend to use the scheme to ensure that a proportionate approach is taken, and that that is clearly spelled out, to ensure that developers accept their responsibilities and that we as the Government display our accountability to the public.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12450, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. The Grenfell tower tragedy provid...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will the minister give way?
Paul McLennan SNP
I will make some progress and come back to Mr Rennie, if that is okay. Since I was appointed as a minister I have engaged extensively with home owners and r...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister referred to the committee’s swift action; he is quite right about that. However, he cannot describe as swift the process that the Government has...
Paul McLennan SNP
In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery mo...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the criticisms of the responsible developers scheme, and of the bill in general, is a lack of clarity. For example, we do not have enough information ...
Paul McLennan SNP
The engagement process is key in the cladding role that I have taken on. I have met individual developers on a number of occasions, and we have had round-tab...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm to members that we have time in hand for interventions this afternoon. We will try to be generous in that regard. I call Ariane Burgess to spe...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
It is my pleasure to speak on behalf of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Sc...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided briefings, our committee clerks for their support on the report and the witnesses who have given important evide...
Graham Simpson Con
Does Miles Briggs agree that it is not just about ministers having reporting duties but about action, so that people actually get work done on their properti...
Miles Briggs Con
Absolutely. For so many people—whether it is those who gave evidence to the committee or our constituents—there is huge frustration about being kept in the d...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven year...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Over the years, the Government has shown a lot of unfounded confidence in its processes. Back in August 2021, when it launched the single building assessment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I ask those members seeking to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. 15:14
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report...
Graham Simpson Con
What does Willie Coffey understand by the phrase “tolerable risk”?
Willie Coffey SNP
It provides a degree of risk, so that a building is not just “safe” or “unsafe”. The feeling was that that could have brought many buildings within the regis...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to this important debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to today’s stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediatio...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The purpose of a stage 1 parliamentary debate is to agree the general principles of a bill, and I think that we can all agree with the general principles of ...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate. ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as someone who was a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee when its report scrutinising the bill was completed...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Let us start at the beginning. Other members have rightly said that the whole issue began when Grenfell tower turned into an inferno in June 2017, killing 72...
Paul McLennan SNP
On the point about a UK-wide remediation scheme, it was the UK Government that decided on an England-only approach. That was not a Scottish Government decisi...
Graham Simpson Con
I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about thi...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I note that there are 13 high-rise buildings in scope in the wider Falkirk district, none of which is in my Falkirk East constituency. However, I am interest...
Graham Simpson Con
Would the member want that level of detail in the bill?
Michelle Thomson SNP
It may be extremely difficult to have that. I accept that a lot of this is being worked through. I made a comment, which I stand by, about secondary legislat...