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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 April 2024

18 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I appreciate that.

I understand why there is frustration and impatience, but that is why I wish to be able to introduce the consultation shortly and to move on with getting people round the table and working out what the new benefit would look like. Again with the greatest respect, I say that we do not need the bill—or, indeed, any other statutory footing—to get people around the table to design a benefit. We have not needed that for any other benefit that we have co-designed, and we do not need it for this one. Rather than putting the Government under an obligation to set up a council, which would be the case if the bill were to become an act, we could already be getting people round the table and having discussions without the bill, and I am happy to confirm that we will be doing so.

The committee has raised important questions about whether the model for a statutory advisory council that the bill proposes is the right option for employment injury assistance. The bill seeks to set up a council; it does not simply seek to set up a body that advises on the development of a benefit. The committee believes that the creation of an advisory council could add to the advice and scrutiny landscape across the UK, which can already be confusing. I want to take time to consider that carefully, including whether and how a future advisory council might work with the Scottish Commission on Social Security. I therefore agree with the committee’s conclusion that the bill does not represent the most effective way of meeting the aspirations of the many people who wish to see change in the new system.

Replicating a fundamental aspect of the UK system, which has been so widely criticised, in the absence of proper considerations of the wider purpose, structure and administration of employment injury assistance is not the right approach. However, as I said, I appreciate that some people are keen for changes to be made more quickly. I have made no secret of how complicated replacing the industrial injuries scheme will be. Many of the changes that stakeholders want, including a greater emphasis on the prevention of workplace disease, are not possible with the powers that we currently have.

The scheme as it stands was introduced in 1948 and is delivered almost entirely using a paper-based system. That contrasts with the digital systems that we use for benefits that have been devolved to date. Developing a paper-based replacement will have costs attached. If we include any digital actions of replacement, that will also have costs attached.

In addition, the up to 150,000 files relating to Scottish awards are held in bulky paper case files going back many years. We need to consider carefully how, given the age, condition and location of those files, we can undertake case transfer. That is important work that we will continue with the UK Government.

We are considerably constrained in our ability to make changes in the short term, but I am committed to exploring how employment injury assistance can be reformed so that it meets the needs of the people while protecting payments to current clients. To that end, in the coming weeks we will launch a consultation on employment injury assistance that will be focused specifically on the immediate next steps. That is an important first step in what will be a comprehensive process of engagement with stakeholders and, crucially, people with lived experience of the current scheme. In the weeks following the launch, meetings with disabled people’s organisations and trade unions will be set up, should they wish to take part, to discuss the range of challenges with replacing the scheme and our next steps, as well as the opportunities that come with that.

In line with our commitments, and depending on the outcome of the consultation, that will be followed by the establishment of an advisory group. Again, I stress that we do not need the bill to have that type of group established. The group will consider the responses to the consultation, along with many of the issues that have been raised during the evidence sessions on the bill. Given the understandable interest that has been generated by the member’s bill, I agree with the committee that it is important that the advisory group carefully considers those offers.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12882, in the name of Mark Griffin, on the Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill at stage 1....
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I make a voluntary declaration of interests as a member of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and Unite. I am absolutely delighted to speak ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
There is a lot of agreement with what Mark Griffin says, in that we should be dealing with some of those issues, but am I right in saying that his bill does ...
Mark Griffin Lab
The bill would establish a council that would get the workers who are impacted by illnesses and injuries around the table to design the benefit. The budget t...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We have heard across the chamber throughout this session—indeed, at last—that we recognise the importance of the lived experience of people feeding into the ...
Mark Griffin Lab
Absolutely. It seems strange that we have a current UK industrial injuries system with a UK advisory council with medical experts, trade unionists and peopl...
John Mason SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Griffin Lab
I am sorry, but I think that I am in my last minute. I would be happy to take another intervention in my closing speech. The time for action is now. The bil...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I thank Mark Griffin for his on-going commitment to people who have experienced an industrial injury or occupational disease, which is evidenced by the intro...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary has just set out that the Government agrees with the principles that Mark Griffin has articulated. Given that stage 1 of the process is...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I agree with the principles underlying why Mark Griffin is introducing the bill, and I say the following with the greatest genuine respect to Mr Griffin, wit...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary says that it is more sensible to wait. Does she not realise that, for many people with life-limiting and debilitating conditions, whose...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you time back for interventions.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I appreciate that. I understand why there is frustration and impatience, but that is why I wish to be able to introduce the co...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
If I have time, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Very briefly, Miles Briggs.
Miles Briggs Con
What will be the make-up of that advisory group?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I would be obliged if you would start winding up now, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Certainly, Presiding Officer. I am happy to respond to Miles Briggs’s question in my closing remarks, but the group would particularly include people with l...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There have been a number of interventions already. I would be grateful if, as well as asking for an intervention in the normal way, members would press their...
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to contribute to the debate on behalf of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. I thank everyone who sent submissions in response to ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. As a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I have, over the past number of mo...
Mark Griffin Lab
The point has been made about timing. We are at the stage 1 debate; we still have stage 2, stage 3, royal assent and commencement to go. We are nowhere near ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Again, I understand where Mark Griffin is coming from, but the point is that we need to undertake—with cross-party support, as we have done with every other ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to confirm that I wished to wait to see what would happen today because, quite frankly, there would have been no point in going through a consulta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Wind up, please.
Jeremy Balfour Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that. As I said at the outset, Mr Griffin and his team have undertaken a lot of good work to get his bill to this point. H...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour in this stage 1 debate, and I am pleased to support the general principles of my colleague Mark Griffin’s b...