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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 April 2024

16 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Automated Vehicles Bill
Mountain, Edward Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to speak in this debate as convener of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. I draw members’ attention to the committee’s report on the bill.

The Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee recognises the need for the bill to provide regulation in relation to innovative technology use, which may be expected to increase. It also recognises that the bill is the result of four years of careful joint work by the Scottish Law Commission and the Law Commission of England and Wales, alongside other consultation and policy development. Unfortunately, there was very limited time for the committee’s scrutiny, but I would like to highlight the key points that arose during our consideration.

The committee’s consideration related principally to clause 50 of the bill. There is a dispute about that between the Scottish Government and the UK Government. The clause gives a power to the secretary of state to clarify the application of legislation to the user in charge of an automated vehicle. As I understand it, the dispute between the Governments centres on whether the provision is reserved or devolved. As we have heard from the minister, the Scottish Government’s objection to that clause is that the power can be exercised in devolved areas without the UK Government having to seek the consent of the Scottish ministers and without its having to consult them. The UK Government considers that a requirement to seek consent or to consult would be unnecessary, as the provision relates to a reserved matter.

The committee is in no position to adjudicate disputes on the dividing line between devolved and reserved competence. However, we noted in our report our disappointment that both Governments could not reach a solution on the matter that satisfied everyone. It appears that there is little dispute in relation to the policy behind the bill. It is therefore unfortunate that, even though that is the case, the Governments have been unable to reach agreement.

As I have said, the committee cannot determine whether or not clause 50 relates to devolved matters. However, we agree in principle with the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee’s recommendation that the Scottish Parliament should have an opportunity to effectively scrutinise the exercise of all legislative powers within devolved competence.

The committee explored the Scottish Government’s specific concerns about the potential use of clause 50. Those concerns relate to the potential for the creation of a two-tier approach to driving offences, with one set of rules applied to conventional vehicles and one set of rules applied to autonomous vehicles. The committee understands that the Scottish Government has concerns that that could potentially complicate the law on road offences in a way that might not have been intended.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12834, in the name of Jim Fairlie, which is a legislative consent motion on the Automated Vehicles Bill, ...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could give the response of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee first if that would be helpful.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I appreciate that, Mr Mountain.
Edward Mountain Con
I see that the minister has now come in.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I will allow the minister to begin his speech after he has apologised to the Parliament. As I was saying, the next item of business is a debate on motion S6...
The Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity (Jim Fairlie) SNP
First of all, I offer my apologies, Presiding Officer: I misjudged what I was about to do. I offer my sincere apologies to you and to the Parliament. Thank y...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jim Fairlie SNP
If the member allows me to finish this point, I will come back to him. However, the Scottish Government recommends withholding consent to clause 50 because ...
Graham Simpson Con
I thank the minister for taking the intervention. I think that I heard him say that UK ministers had asked to meet about clause 50. If I heard him right, can...
Jim Fairlie SNP
The Scottish Government does not have a date from the UK Government, so we are still waiting for that meeting to be arranged. I will return to the point tha...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in this debate as convener of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. I draw members’ attention to the committee’s report on the ...
Jim Fairlie SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Edward Mountain Con
I will take an intervention. However, I am limited in what I can say.
Jim Fairlie SNP
I want to clarify a point. Edward Mountain talks about a question being raised about a two-tier system. That was not the point that the Scottish Government r...
Edward Mountain Con
That is the point. It is about where the dividing line is, where scrutiny is needed and whether the UK Government and the Scottish Government agree in relati...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Graham Simpson, who has up to five minutes. 17:14
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I assure members that I will take nothing like five minutes to deal with this matter, so we may have an earlier decision time. Given the debate so far, it...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
It might interest the member to know that one of the reasons why it is so difficult for committees such as the one on which I serve to hear a perspective fro...
Graham Simpson Con
In this case, I am not even sure that the UK Government was asked for its opinion. That gives parliamentarians in the Scottish Parliament a problem, because...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak on behalf of Scottish Labour in this debate on the Automated Vehicles Bill, and I am grateful for the work that the two committees have...
Jim Fairlie SNP
As we draw today’s deliberations to a close, I thank members from across the chamber for their contributions to the debate. I reiterate that UK ministers hav...