Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 26 March 2024
26 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Higher Education (Access)
I cannot imagine that anyone in the chamber would disagree that people who want to go to university as part of their life plan should be able to do so, regardless of means or circumstances. Aside from personal benefits, the consequences are social, economic and fair.
I welcome the tone of the minister’s contribution, particularly on working together, because it inexorably follows that we must constantly ask whether we are achieving that end and whether we can improve.
However, I have to say that, in the motion and in the remarks that we have just heard, the Government is in danger of revealing itself to be selective, dogmatic and dangerously siloed in its thinking. For example, it sets an arbitrary target that students from the 20 per cent most deprived communities will make up 20 per cent of entrants to higher education by 2030, but, as it does so often, it reveals that it has little idea of how to achieve that. The Government does not undertake meaningful reflection on what is working, what is not and, ultimately, what can be improved.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12642, in the name of Graeme Dey, on widening access and equality of access to higher education. I invite...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey)
SNP
The debate provides us with an opportunity to reaffirm our collective commitment to widen access to university for people from our poorest communities, and s...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The minister previously pointed out that there were some high-profile courses where there was a challenge. In particular, I am thinking of law courses at the...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Mr Whitfield is right to cite that situation. As he will be aware, though, that was an isolated example. I think that the University of Edinburgh has recogni...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
Graeme Dey
SNP
I want to make some progress if I may. It is worth reflecting on some of the recent changes that will continue to drive the agenda. Since 2020-21, all unive...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
I agree with the minister that it is extremely important that we give equal access across all SIMD areas, and the progress is welcome. Is he not concerned th...
Graeme Dey
SNP
We are aware of the reliance on international students, but I gently say to Mr Whittle that one of the biggest threats to our university sector—not just in S...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the minister give way on that point?
Graeme Dey
SNP
I am not going to give way; I want to make some progress. We are not going to rest on our laurels. The widening access agenda is too important for that. I r...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I cannot imagine that anyone in the chamber would disagree that people who want to go to university as part of their life plan should be able to do so, regar...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Will the member give way?
Liam Kerr
Con
In two seconds, minister. Let us not forget that the fair access report says that progress has stalled and that the Scottish Government is not on track to m...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I hope that, in not only the content but the tone of what I said, I recognised a number of the points that the member makes. I very much welcome contribution...
Liam Kerr
Con
I recognise that, and I very much welcome the approach to the portfolio that the minister is taking. For far too long, there has been a very restrictive appr...
Graeme Dey
SNP
We really need to nail the myth about the 1,200 places. It has been explored multiple times in the Parliament, and it is still peddled by some. The 1,200 pla...
Liam Kerr
Con
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance stood in the chamber and conceded that there were 1,200-plus fewer places available to students going forward. We can look ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
It is a privilege to open this debate for Scottish Labour. I thank the minister for bringing it to the chamber, because widening access to education is close...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I will take two seconds to finish this bit. Surely even this Government, if it will not listen to staff and students, as I do on picket lines across Scotlan...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I could point to the increase in student support and so on, but let us cut to the chase. We are now almost four minutes into Labour’s opening speech, and we ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I thank the minister for his intervention. On his point about the increase in student support, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that there has been ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I am afraid that I do not have time. The only thing that prevents that from being the case is the tenacity of universities, not this Government. Universiti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
I advise members that there is no time in hand and that you will need to stick to your speaking allocation. I call Willie Rennie, who has up to four minutes....
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
This is a rather sensitive subject for Liberal Democrats, but—just to be clear—I point out that we voted for the abolition of tuition fees in this Parliament...
Graeme Dey
SNP
There is an implied criticism of the sector in what Willie Rennie has said, although I do not think that he meant it. Circumstances have changed. We have had...
Willie Rennie
LD
There was no implied criticism at all. We are all learning as we go along to understand exactly what works best. In Paisley and St Andrews, we have seen what...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie
LD
We also need to close the poverty-related attainment gap, and two-year-olds’ access to nursery education needs to improve quite dramatically. 16:29