Committee
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 26 March 2024
26 Mar 2024 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Alcohol (Minimum Price per Unit) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2024 [Draft]
The policy has never been a silver bullet, and it has never existed in isolation as the only thing that we are doing. The paragraph that jumped out at me in the letter from the north-east of England branch of the Association of Directors of Public Health concerned the proportionately higher positive health impacts on people who experience the deepest health inequalities. The letter said: “The positive health impact of the policy, compared to what would have happened without MUP, can be seen both in annual death statistics before the pandemic struck, and when comparing the rise in alcohol deaths in Scotland to England, since. In the first full year after MUP was implemented, there was a 10% reduction in alcohol-specific deaths and a small reduction in hospital admissions from liver disease.” One of the key areas is the high incidence of liver disease in Scotland and how we can tackle that to reduce the harms. The letter went on to say: “Changing drinking habits during the pandemic, combined with reduced access to services, led to a tragic rise in alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland between 2019 and 2021”. We recognise that and are focusing work on it. However, the letter went on to say: “this was substantially lower than the rise experienced in England and particularly the rise in the North East”. The north-east of England branch of the association analysed the difference between not having minimum unit pricing in England, including in the north of England, and having it in Scotland and came to the conclusion that, in its professional judgment, minimum unit pricing targeted the areas where the biggest inequalities were, particularly in relation to hospital admissions and deaths. On the 156 lives that are saved, if one of those people was in your family, they would be a precious person. All 156 of those people continue to be precious. Earlier, I made points in response to the question about the impact on women and other groups. I want to pick up and look at that, too.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 2 is consideration of two draft affirmative instruments, the first of which is the draft Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Continuat...
The Minister for Drugs and Alcohol Policy (Christina McKelvie)
SNP
Good morning, convener and colleagues. I am pleased to be in front of the committee today to discuss minimum unit pricing and the two draft orders that were ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, minister, for that opening statement. As it has pre-empted what was going to be my first question, I will move on to my next. You touched on clai...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
As I have said, not everybody agrees with minimum unit pricing, but Public Health Scotland’s evaluation, the work that we have done, and the 80 organisations...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you for that. I should also place on record a reference to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a registered mental health nurse with a cu...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Last week, I met the industry partnership group to discuss further proposals and how we might work together on the issue, which is something that I am very c...
The Convener
SNP
Has there been an impact on the sales of other products, such as whisky and other spirits?
Christina McKelvie
SNP
According to our analysis, there seems to have been no impact on that type of alcohol, because its unit price in the off-trade was already well in excess of ...
The Convener
SNP
Tess White has a supplementary question. 09:30
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Public Health Scotland evaluation of MUP is riddled with holes, as are the Scottish Government’s conclusions about its effectiveness. That is not my view...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
I do not agree with that characterisation of the evaluation. The Scottish Government tasked Public Health Scotland with undertaking an independent evaluation...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a national health service general practitioner. Minister, you spoke about underage drinkers. Can you point me to the evidence that ...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
There has been a pretty marked impact on underage drinking. We should look at that in more detail, because it surely demonstrates the benefits of doing the h...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
Are you specifically saying that MUP has led to a decrease in underage drinking? That was my question.
Christina McKelvie
SNP
The Public Health Scotland evaluation did not find that and did not go into that detail, but the Health Behaviour in School-aged Children survey did. That ga...
Sandesh Gulhane
Con
I am sure that that is the case, but the quote that you used was about underage drinking and Public Health Scotland said that it has found no evidence that M...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
Public Health Scotland has said that, yes.
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, minister, for your opening statement. I am interested in some of the other measurements that we might look at around MUP. We have seen strong evid...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
There are a couple of things there. Public Health Scotland’s analysis showed that the biggest impact was on men and on people in the 40 per cent most deprive...
Katherine Myant (Scottish Government)
As the minister has said, the Public Health Scotland evaluation took a theory-based approach. One of the things that it did was to look at any potential unin...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
The thing is that dependent drinkers were never the focus of this policy; the focus was always on the people who drink at harmful and hazardous levels. As I ...
Carol Mochan
Lab
Yes, it had been suggested that that might happen, but there is some evidence—
Christina McKelvie
SNP
The front-line organisations that support people had that worry, but it has not materialised. They have been pretty open; I think that they have said in evid...
Carol Mochan
Lab
To be clear, as this is an important policy that we will be voting on, is the Government confident that it worked in the area that it should have worked in a...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We are not committing to a huge Public Health Scotland review such as the one that we have just done. However, I am committed to reviewing the areas that we ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. I have a brief supplementary question following on from the conversation around Sandesh Gulhane’s question. With regard to underage d...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
We have analysed that cross-border comparison of what is happening here compared with other parts of not just the whole of England, but England and Wales and...
Ivan McKee
SNP
To be clear, I assume that data is available on alcohol consumption rates in Scotland versus the rest of the UK. What does that show for young people?
Katherine Myant
The Health Behaviour in School-aged Children survey is a multicountry survey, so we can compare Scotland with other countries. Those trends are also observed...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you for being here this morning. I am interested in how the pandemic impacted alcohol consumption. I have a wee brief in front of me from Alcohol Focus...