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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 March 2024

19 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Fairlie, Jim SNP Perthshire South and Kinross-shire Watch on SPTV

Clearly, Finlay Carson is setting the tone of the debate today. I will come on to why we have an enabling power.

I turn to my amendments in the group. To put it simply, they will do the following: amendments 4 to 6 will make it an offence for a person to sell or to possess a rodent glue trap. The bill will already make it an offence to use a glue trap, and the Scottish Government has always been clear that it intended to lodge amendments that will also ban their sale and possession. A ban on the sale of glue traps will ensure that members of the public cannot buy those products in Scotland. It will also enable trading standards officers to act against anyone who is selling those products, thereby providing an additional aid to law enforcement. A ban on possession will allow law enforcement officers to remove products from individuals before the products are used. That is especially important, given the severe welfare implications that are associated with use of the products.

In addition, my amendments will remove the offence of purchasing a glue trap. With a full ban on use, sale and possession of glue traps in place, the net effect is that people will be unable to lawfully obtain a glue trap, so the offence of purchasing one will be unnecessary. For those reasons, I encourage members to vote for amendments 4 to 6.

Use of glue traps has already been banned completely in Wales, and England has banned their use by members of the public, so there are already different approaches being taken in two parts of the United Kingdom. The Scottish Government is still engaging in discussions with the UK Government on the matter of an exclusion to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 in relation to sale and possession of glue traps. A ban on sale and possession of glue traps would have a negligible effect on the market for glue traps in the rest of the UK, so I see no reason for the UK Government not to support such an exclusion.

Discussions about the exclusion will continue, but I see no reason not to take the opportunity to legislate now to ban possession and sale of glue traps. The United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 should not be allowed to undermine the power of this Parliament to legislate in areas that are within our devolved competence, so I hope that it will not be used on this occasion to prevent the exclusion.

My amendments 29 to 36 will allow trading standards officers to investigate offences relating to supply and possession of glue traps. Trading standards officers respond to and investigate consumer complaints and conduct routine inspection of businesses to ensure that they are complying with legislation and are not selling prohibited products. Those officers have equivalent powers in relation to other items—for example, their powers were recently extended to cover fireworks. They have a statutory duty to combat illegal trading; it is, therefore, sensible to extend their powers so that they can investigate complaints that a business is continuing to sell glue traps in contravention of the ban. For those reasons, I encourage members to vote for amendments 29 to 36.

14:45  

The Scottish Government’s position is clear: we should have a comprehensive ban on use, sale and possession of rodent glue traps. We consider that continued use of glue traps is not necessary, and that sufficient alternatives are available. The evidence from countries where glue traps have been banned—including the Republic of Ireland and, most recently, Wales—demonstrates to me that a full ban can be brought in without any negative impacts arising, and that successful control of rodents in settings such as hospitals is possible without the need to resort to glue traps. I see no reason why that would be any different in Scotland.

However, during the bill process I have heard from the British Pest Control Association, which raised concerns that increased rodenticide resistance in rodent populations is a real possibility, which could lead in the future to a situation in which professional controllers have very limited options to deal with infestations in high-risk areas.

Having listened to those concerns and reflected on the need to respond to infestations in a swift manner, I believe that it is prudent to include an enabling power in the bill. It is a helpful addition that will future proof the bill, as we have done in other areas. My amendments 1, 3 and 11 will therefore provide Scottish ministers with the ability to create a tightly regulated authorisation to allow use, possession and sale of glue traps in exceptionally limited circumstances and with several safeguards to reduce animal suffering.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Our next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with amendments, members should have the...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 1 is on glue traps. Amendment 38, in the name of Christine Grahame, is grouped with amendments 39, 40, 1, 41, 2, 3, 42, 4 to 6, 43, 44, 7 to 11, and 29...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
The arguments that I will make in support of amendment 38 apply equally to amendment 39. Of the other amendments in the group, my intention is to reference i...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Could you please bring your remarks to a conclusion?
Christine Grahame SNP
I am bringing them to a conclusion. The point that I am making—which deserves to be re-emphasised—is that, until stage 3, there was no notion that we would...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Glue traps are barbaric, cruel and indiscriminate. Rats and mice, and sometimes non-target species, that are stuck in traps often remain there until the pers...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Colin Smyth Lab
I am sure that Edward Mountain will have an opportunity to speak in the debate, but I will still give way to him at this point.
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the member for giving way. Twice this afternoon I have heard non-target species being mentioned. In the environments that we are talking about—inside...
Colin Smyth Lab
Any animal crossing a glue trap will be caught. The reality is that the cruelty to rats and mice is absolutely clear for everyone to see. No matter who sets ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call the minister to speak to amendment 1 and other amendments in the group.
The Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity (Jim Fairlie) SNP
I fully understand Ms Grahame’s reasons for lodging her amendments, but I am unable to support them. When introducing criminal offences, it is common to fra...
Christine Grahame SNP
How can someone have a reasonable excuse for doing something that is banned?
Jim Fairlie SNP
I will come on to that question as I get through my notes. Under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence to knowingly cause or permit someon...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Given that the minister and his predecessors had ample time to raise concerns around a total ban on glue traps, why was it that there was—as Colin Smyth said...
Jim Fairlie SNP
Clearly, Finlay Carson is setting the tone of the debate today. I will come on to why we have an enabling power. I turn to my amendments in the group. To pu...
Finlay Carson Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jim Fairlie SNP
I will not, at the moment. The power sets out that the scheme can be used only to allow authorisations where no other method of rodent control is practicab...
Finlay Carson Con
I will try again. In the spirit of the debate and of passing legislation, will the minister lay out when he first heard the concerns of the British Pest Cont...
Jim Fairlie SNP
We lodged the amendments to allow the enabling power because we had listened. We heard that people were genuinely concerned. Your colleague, who is sitting b...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Always speak through the chair, please.
Jim Fairlie SNP
We listened to those concerns, and it would be prudent in the extreme to make sure that we have something in place, just in case there is an emergency. The...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Edward Mountain to speak to amendment 41 and other amendments in the group.
Edward Mountain Con
I start by saying that I fear that I might be on the other side of the debate on some of the subject matter from Christine Grahame and Colin Smyth. However, ...
Jim Fairlie SNP
Will the member give way?
Edward Mountain Con
I will give way to you, minister.
The Presiding Officer NPA
You should always speak through the chair.
Jim Fairlie SNP
Edward Mountain proposed a licensing scheme that could be given to any pest controller who does not have accreditation in this country, whereas we are propos...
Edward Mountain Con
Well, there we go. The minister is still not listening. I was talking about following parliamentary procedure and talking to people who have lodged amendment...
Christine Grahame SNP
Perhaps the factory cat that is there to keep the number of mice down is wandering about. Cats can get stuck in the traps. They are one example.