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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2024

12 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Coffey, Willie SNP Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley Watch on SPTV

I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report, which was unanimously agreed by all members.

It is worth remembering that cladding remediation is principally an issue for the developers and builders who built the homes that have this cladding, and there has been nothing really to prevent them from getting on with remediation all this time. I have always said at committee that it is an issue for both Government and developers—a dual responsibility. Some developers have been doing remediation work, which is to their credit.

I have been involved in the preparation of a number of stage 1 committee reports over my years in the Parliament, but this one was different. The level of scrutiny and inquiry that all our committee members undertook is understandable, given the subject matter, but it is a testament to their commitment to getting it right that they undertook such forensic scrutiny of the Government’s proposals for cladding remediation. All the committee members deserve great credit for the work that they have done. Our witnesses—some of whom are affected residents—offered us a valuable degree of rigour in getting the bill right, which I sincerely hope stands us in good stead as we take the bill through the parliamentary stages to become law. I thank them all for helping to get us to where we are now.

The minister reminded us where all this came from: the tragic events at Grenfell in London in 2017, when 72 people lost their lives. Our committee will play an important part in getting the bill right and providing assurance to residents whose homes have cladding that needs to be replaced.

A key issue for the committee and for many of those who gave evidence was whether the bill could or should include wider fire safety considerations beyond the cladding remediation that was intended at the outset. From the Government’s response to that aspect of the stage 1 report, as requested by the committee in recommendation 73, it is clear that the bill

“relates to buildings with ... cladding systems and it is not a general fire safety Bill.”

Although wider risks might well emerge during the assessment and remediation of a building, the Government states that we should

“recognise that there are broader systems and legislation in place to manage these where they fall outside the scope”

of the bill. The Government makes that point again as part of recommendation 93 in relation to the cladding assurance register.

Rightly, the committee asked for clarity on the exact specification for the single building assessment. I note from the Government’s response that the single building assessment will include the fire risk appraisal of the external walls system, which is based on industry standard PAS 9980. The SBA will also include a fire risk assessment that

“will survey the internal fire safety measures, including internal compartmentation of buildings in order to assess risk”

that might be

“created or exacerbated by the building’s external ... cladding”.

If I have understood that correctly, that will provide additional assurance for residents about some of the wider fire safety matters that are important to many of the residents from whom we heard. If that is the case, I would welcome a comment from the minister when he winds up the debate.

It is welcome that the Government has agreed that “tolerable risk” will form part of the single building assessment process instead of the initial proposal to have binary designations of “safe” or “unsafe”.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12450, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. The Grenfell tower tragedy provid...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will the minister give way?
Paul McLennan SNP
I will make some progress and come back to Mr Rennie, if that is okay. Since I was appointed as a minister I have engaged extensively with home owners and r...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister referred to the committee’s swift action; he is quite right about that. However, he cannot describe as swift the process that the Government has...
Paul McLennan SNP
In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery mo...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the criticisms of the responsible developers scheme, and of the bill in general, is a lack of clarity. For example, we do not have enough information ...
Paul McLennan SNP
The engagement process is key in the cladding role that I have taken on. I have met individual developers on a number of occasions, and we have had round-tab...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm to members that we have time in hand for interventions this afternoon. We will try to be generous in that regard. I call Ariane Burgess to spe...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
It is my pleasure to speak on behalf of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Sc...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided briefings, our committee clerks for their support on the report and the witnesses who have given important evide...
Graham Simpson Con
Does Miles Briggs agree that it is not just about ministers having reporting duties but about action, so that people actually get work done on their properti...
Miles Briggs Con
Absolutely. For so many people—whether it is those who gave evidence to the committee or our constituents—there is huge frustration about being kept in the d...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven year...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Over the years, the Government has shown a lot of unfounded confidence in its processes. Back in August 2021, when it launched the single building assessment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I ask those members seeking to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. 15:14
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report...
Graham Simpson Con
What does Willie Coffey understand by the phrase “tolerable risk”?
Willie Coffey SNP
It provides a degree of risk, so that a building is not just “safe” or “unsafe”. The feeling was that that could have brought many buildings within the regis...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to this important debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to today’s stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediatio...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The purpose of a stage 1 parliamentary debate is to agree the general principles of a bill, and I think that we can all agree with the general principles of ...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate. ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as someone who was a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee when its report scrutinising the bill was completed...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Let us start at the beginning. Other members have rightly said that the whole issue began when Grenfell tower turned into an inferno in June 2017, killing 72...
Paul McLennan SNP
On the point about a UK-wide remediation scheme, it was the UK Government that decided on an England-only approach. That was not a Scottish Government decisi...
Graham Simpson Con
I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about thi...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I note that there are 13 high-rise buildings in scope in the wider Falkirk district, none of which is in my Falkirk East constituency. However, I am interest...
Graham Simpson Con
Would the member want that level of detail in the bill?
Michelle Thomson SNP
It may be extremely difficult to have that. I accept that a lot of this is being worked through. I made a comment, which I stand by, about secondary legislat...