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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 March 2024

12 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Griffin, Mark Lab Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven years, we have been urging the Scottish Government to take ownership and to urgently start removing the dangerously combustible materials from Scotland’s homes. Indeed, the minister has spent the vast majority of his time in Parliament as a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, urging the Government to take such action, alongside the convener, Mr Briggs and others who have come and gone from the committee. The minister is now charged with delivering the action that he was urging the Government to take.

I thank the clerks of the committee and all the organisations that gave evidence on the issue.

The bill raises a variety of complex and technical issues relating to fire safety and building standards, but it is important to recognise what brought us to this point and why we are here today: the Grenfell disaster, which was a preventable tragedy that caused the death of 72 people. It is imperative that, in Scotland, we do everything that we can to avoid a repeat of the events of that night in June 2017.

Can the Government say that everything that can be done to remove dangerous cladding from homes is being done? It has been claimed that the bill is being pushed through Parliament with no public consultation in order to expedite work starting on cladding removal. That is all well and good, but it has taken seven years to develop a bill and to get to this point, when England and Wales have been powering ahead—not developing legislation, but fixing buildings and making them safe.

The figures speak for themselves. In England, remediation work has started on 1,608 buildings, with 797 of those now having had cladding removed or remediated completely. In Wales, work on 37 buildings that were in need of remediation has now been completed, with work on a further 86 due to start in the coming year. In Scotland, the total number of buildings that have been made safe comes to just two. The only thing that the Scottish Government has committed to doing is putting buildings on a pathway to a single building assessment by the summer of 2024, which is a million miles away from remediation. Where is the drive and leadership that we need to fix Scotland’s unsafe housing? I am not entirely sure that the bill demonstrates that.

Cladding remediation is not a theoretical exercise. The issue of cladding has absolutely consumed people’s lives, causing them long-term worry and stress about the safety of their homes. It has a financial impact on owners, who are not able to sell, to insure or to remortgage their properties. What is worse, if the combustible cladding is not removed from dangerous buildings, every night, families who live in those buildings go to sleep filled with dread and fear. Because of the Government’s inaction, families have been living in fear for far too long.

The bill has much to commend within it. For example, we welcome the inclusion of a single building assessment, but it is clear from the cross-party committee report that there is much more to do. We heard of the potential difficulties in implementing the bill because of a lack of clarity over what should be included in the assessment and how wider hazards that are not directly related to cladding should be dealt with if they are found as part of the assessment.

There is a worrying lack of detail from the Government about what the responsible developers scheme will look like. Much of that detail will be left to secondary legislation. Residents and developers want clarity on what their responsibilities will be, what owners and residents can expect developers to deliver and what burden developers will be expected to take on.

There is not enough information on the single building assessment, which is fundamental to the roll-out of the cladding remediation scheme. We need to know what a single building assessment is, what the specification is, what an assessment looks like and what standard it is assessing to. If we do not know, how can we possibly determine whether it will speed up the removal and remediation of dangerous cladding in Scotland? Those assessments are a key part of the scheme, and they are far too important to the process to remain undefined.

There is no argument that risks will be identified as a result of the assessment process, but it is unclear to me why the Government has provided such scarce detail on how it will categorise the risks that are identified and what should be done when a building assessment identifies a safety risk. How will the bill speed up the process of removing cladding if, in a matter of months or years, we end up back in Parliament yet again to talk more about those issues? The Government has had seven years. We have a bill, but surely the time to decide on those things is long past.

We will continue to push the Government to deliver a faster pace of remediation and the key information that is missing from the bill. The necessarily rushed nature of the bill, the lack of consultation and the lack of detail on relatively complex and technical proposals all lead to the committee’s real concern that the bill has potentially not been well enough drafted or scrutinised to achieve its stated aim of providing the certainty that will allow developers and householders to expedite cladding remediation in Scotland. This is how one property owner put it to the committee. He said:

“My sense is that the bill does not deliver a sigh of relief or a fist pump. It is legalese … but does the bill address the key concerns of owners? Not really, until there is proof.”—[Official Report, Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, 23 January 2024; c 6.]

The bill’s aim is to put the building blocks in place to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. We will follow that process closely and strive to ensure that we gain clarity from the Government on whether the bill will achieve that aim as it makes its way through Parliament.

For those reasons, we support the principles of the bill at stage 1. However, for the safety of people who live in unsafe homes, the bill must become an act that is laser focused on driving the Government to deliver its cladding remediation programme.

15:08  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12450, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. The Grenfell tower tragedy provid...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will the minister give way?
Paul McLennan SNP
I will make some progress and come back to Mr Rennie, if that is okay. Since I was appointed as a minister I have engaged extensively with home owners and r...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister referred to the committee’s swift action; he is quite right about that. However, he cannot describe as swift the process that the Government has...
Paul McLennan SNP
In 2022, the then Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government acknowledged that point. That is why we moved on to select a delivery mo...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the criticisms of the responsible developers scheme, and of the bill in general, is a lack of clarity. For example, we do not have enough information ...
Paul McLennan SNP
The engagement process is key in the cladding role that I have taken on. I have met individual developers on a number of occasions, and we have had round-tab...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I can confirm to members that we have time in hand for interventions this afternoon. We will try to be generous in that regard. I call Ariane Burgess to spe...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
It is my pleasure to speak on behalf of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Sc...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the organisations that have provided briefings, our committee clerks for their support on the report and the witnesses who have given important evide...
Graham Simpson Con
Does Miles Briggs agree that it is not just about ministers having reporting duties but about action, so that people actually get work done on their properti...
Miles Briggs Con
Absolutely. For so many people—whether it is those who gave evidence to the committee or our constituents—there is huge frustration about being kept in the d...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We welcome the debate and support the bill’s general principles, as we would any serious attempt to speed up cladding remediation in Scotland. For seven year...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Over the years, the Government has shown a lot of unfounded confidence in its processes. Back in August 2021, when it launched the single building assessment...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I ask those members seeking to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. 15:14
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I thank our committee convener and our hard-working clerks, who provided much-needed advice and guidance in the preparation of the committee’s stage 1 report...
Graham Simpson Con
What does Willie Coffey understand by the phrase “tolerable risk”?
Willie Coffey SNP
It provides a degree of risk, so that a building is not just “safe” or “unsafe”. The feeling was that that could have brought many buildings within the regis...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to this important debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, I am pleased to contribute to today’s stage 1 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediatio...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The purpose of a stage 1 parliamentary debate is to agree the general principles of a bill, and I think that we can all agree with the general principles of ...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to you and to members that, due to a pressing meeting, I will not be able to stay in the chamber until the end of the debate. ...
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate as someone who was a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee when its report scrutinising the bill was completed...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Let us start at the beginning. Other members have rightly said that the whole issue began when Grenfell tower turned into an inferno in June 2017, killing 72...
Paul McLennan SNP
On the point about a UK-wide remediation scheme, it was the UK Government that decided on an England-only approach. That was not a Scottish Government decisi...
Graham Simpson Con
I know that the minister has not been in post for long, but I can tell him that a number of us, including Jeremy Balfour and me, have been going on about thi...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I note that there are 13 high-rise buildings in scope in the wider Falkirk district, none of which is in my Falkirk East constituency. However, I am interest...
Graham Simpson Con
Would the member want that level of detail in the bill?
Michelle Thomson SNP
It may be extremely difficult to have that. I accept that a lot of this is being worked through. I made a comment, which I stand by, about secondary legislat...