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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 March 2024

05 Mar 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Place in the World

I look forward to hearing the member’s speech; I hope that he has something positive to contribute. I will make progress, Presiding Officer.

People in the rest of the UK will, of course, always be Scotland’s closest friends. As an independent country, there will be many issues on which we will agree with the rest of the UK. There is no difference, for example, between the position of the UK Government and the Scottish Government on Russia’s barbaric and illegal invasion of Ukraine. However, we take different positions on the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and on perhaps the most fundamental of foreign policy issues—our relationship with our fellow Europeans. People in Scotland want to go in a very different direction from that which is proposed by all the Westminster parties.

Within the constraints of the powers of the Scottish Parliament, Scotland has a strong record of international engagement, from our bilateral review with Ireland to our work on Arctic connections, as well as our international development programme. There are those across the Westminster parties who would want to see those powers constrained even further and for that work to be stopped. However, Scotland is not defined as a devolved Administration; we are an ancient nation, and my party, the Scottish National Party, and our partners in the Scottish Greens have an internationalist outward-looking vision for our country.

Independence offers Scotland the chance to play a full role internationally and to determine the kind of state that we want to be—one that promotes and protects human rights, acts on our values and principles and builds partnerships with others to address global challenges. Independence would allow Scotland to pursue Scottish interests internationally by focusing on the issues that matter most to people, communities and businesses here, while demonstrating our commitment to shared rules and international standards. As a new state with new powers, an independent Scotland would have the opportunity to make a fresh start and structure its diplomacy, working relationships and priorities accordingly, while not overlooking the legacy of its past.

Our ambition is to be represented at every level of European Union decision making and able to influence decisions and promote Scotland’s interests. With membership of the EU, people here would once again benefit from EU citizenship and the right to study, work and live right across Europe. As part of the world’s largest single market, an independent Scotland’s businesses would gain access to almost 450 million consumers without the barriers to trade that they face because of Brexit. They would also benefit from the opportunities that come from the EU’s ability to secure advantageous trade arrangements.

Today, though, we also look beyond Europe to the wider world. “An independent Scotland’s place in the world” sets out how an independent Scotland would take its place in the international community alongside 193 other United Nations member states, building relationships in pursuit of our international priorities.

The protection of the nation and its people is a first duty of every Government, and that would be no different in an independent Scotland. The Scottish Government proposes that an independent Scotland would apply to join NATO and would seek discussions with NATO leaders at the earliest opportunity following a vote for independence. As with the EU and the UN, there is much that we can offer as a NATO member. Scotland occupies a position of strategic importance, close to the high north and Arctic and facing out to the Atlantic Ocean and the North Sea. An independent Scotland would therefore be a key strategic partner in the collective defence of northern Europe.

We would commit to defence spending of 2 per cent of gross domestic product and would make democratic accountability a cornerstone of defence policy, so that an independent Scotland would participate in overseas military operations only if they were lawful, approved by Scottish ministers and authorised by the Parliament.

The Scottish Government is also clear that nuclear weapons would be removed from Scotland in the quickest and safest way possible after independence. That is entirely consistent with NATO membership, as 23 of the 31 current members neither possess nor host nuclear weapons.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12372, in the name of Angus Robertson, on Scotland’s place in the world. I invite members who wish to par...
The Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP
This debate follows yesterday’s publication of the latest paper in the Scottish Government’s “Building a New Scotland” series, “An independent Scotland’s pla...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
If this is such an important series of reports and if this is such a serious debate, why have only 10 of the cabinet secretary’s parliamentary colleagues tur...
Angus Robertson SNP
I look forward to hearing the member’s speech; I hope that he has something positive to contribute. I will make progress, Presiding Officer. People in the r...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
My party and the cabinet secretary’s party have different positions on NATO—as I will outline in my speech—but we absolutely agree on the moral obscenity of ...
Angus Robertson SNP
Yes, absolutely. The Scottish Government supports the objectives of the international Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and the Treaty on the Non-...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Alexander Stewart to speak to and move amendment S6M-12372.1. You have around nine minutes, Mr Stewart. 15:11
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, although it is disappointing that the Government has chosen to waste parliamentary t...
Ross Greer Green
Will the member give way?
Alexander Stewart Con
I will take some time before I take an intervention; I might take one later. My amendment calls for the Government to put a stop to the continuous grandstan...
Angus Robertson SNP
A majority of MSPs wish to see an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, as do a majority of members of Parliament from Scotland at Westminster. What has the UK Govern...
Alexander Stewart Con
There are many views and the situation is dire. We have to admit that. I want to see progress on a resolution to things and to see a two-state situation in t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Stewart, will you resume your seat for a moment? Mr Hoy and Mr Kerr, I have tried to make it clear to you that I do not want to hear separate conversation...
Alexander Stewart Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The SNP Government is clearly willing to continue the same old narrative week after week. Taking such an approach is within it...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This is a crucial time for global democracy, as 2024 will see nearly 2 billion people around the world go to the polls and give their verdicts on their polit...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
How can that be the case, given the recruitment and retention crisis, the possible selling off of one of the aircraft carriers, and the Ajax tanks fiasco? Su...
Neil Bibby Lab
I am just coming on to why that would be the case. The paper does not propose having any aircraft carriers. I pay tribute to our excellent armed forces. The...
Angus Robertson SNP
Will Neil Bibby give way?
Neil Bibby Lab
I will in a moment. It has been reported that the cabinet secretary has said that Scotland would join the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, but ...
Angus Robertson SNP
What Neil Bibby has outlined is the position of the Governments of the Kingdom of Denmark, the Kingdom of Norway, Sweden and the Republic of Finland. If it i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Neil Bibby, I will give you the time back.
Neil Bibby Lab
Talk about not answering the question! I asked not about Denmark, Finland or Norway—Interruption.—but about the Scottish Government’s position on whether it ...
Angus Robertson SNP
As Neil Bibby should know, the right of passage for any vessel—conventional or nuclear, armed or powered—is guaranteed under the United Nations Convention on...
Neil Bibby Lab
The cabinet secretary’s position is extremely confusing. Do we seriously think that NATO would allow a situation whereby a member would prevent it from using...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Deputy Presiding Officer, you already know that I think very highly of our Minister for Independence. I think that he is destined for many greater things in ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Mr Rennie, even if you are quoting, as I have made clear before—
Angus Robertson SNP
He should sit down.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Please resume your seat, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
Certainly.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I would expect members to use language that is fitting for the parliamentary chamber; that was not fitting for the parliamentary chamber.