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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 December 2023

20 Dec 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill

I am pleased to speak in the debate and to confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will support the bill at decision time. As the minister outlined, this is the first major overhaul of trust law in a century and, having listened to the evidence that has been brought forward, I think that it is clear that this much-needed modernisation will provide clarity and make the law in the area more user friendly.

Although the bill stops short of a full codification of trust law, it has captured the areas on which there is broad consensus. Given that it is a Scottish Law Commission bill that has come through the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, it probably strikes the right balance. I know that, in the stage 1 debate, there was discussion about whether it could have done more on trusts and succession, but the way in which the bill has come to Parliament explains why some aspects are more modest, as it has sought to be less political and controversial and to move the law forward.

As with a great many areas that the Parliament has responsibility for but that do not always appeal to politicians, such bills can find it difficult to get chamber time, and I welcome the process that is now in place with the DPLR Committee. Obviously, no one ever wishes for more work for themselves, but we have worked well as a committee, and we have a new area of interest.

I have only one outstanding and significant concern about the bill, which is about how public awareness raising will be taken forward. That was a theme of the stage 1 debate. These are significant changes to trust law, and how the changes will be communicated to the smaller charities and organisations and individuals who operate in the space is important. Many of them have been doing the same thing for a long time, and many will likely get updated professional advice after the passage of the bill. The Law Society of Scotland is right to highlight in its briefing that a

“comprehensive publicity and awareness-raising campaign for trustees, their professional advisers and the wider public interacting with trusts”

is essential.

Throughout the passage of the bill, we have seen that this is not always the most interesting area that captures everyone’s interest straight away, and I recognise that there is difficulty in getting people to engage. That was the case with some stakeholders and people who work in the area—people do not always have the time or the energy. Sometimes, we think that everybody is watching and listening to every word that is said in the Parliament, and that those in the legal profession pick up on every bill that is passed. I am keen to hear more from the minister about that.

I am sure that unexpected challenges and unintended consequences may arise as a result of the changes, which are significant. In the future, we have to do better at scrutinising the success of legislation that we pass and at evaluating whether it delivers the changes that have been set out.

I could go back through all the things that the bill does, but the minister set that out pretty comprehensively. As I close, I suggest that the Parliament should not wait another century to review the law in this area. Given its significance and central importance—financially and to Scottish society—we should take a bit more interest in it.

I thank all those at the Scottish Law Commission and the many witnesses and organisations who have given their time and energy to get the bill to this point. At times, it must seem like a thankless task and deeply frustrating when their expertise and legal practice are not given the attention that they deserve. I hope that the passage of the bill—provided that colleagues support it, which I urge them to—shows that the processes work and are worth while. The many reports that the Scottish Law Commission has spent time on now seem to be proceeding with pace.

16:41  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11699, in the name of Siobhian Brown, on the Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill. 16:30
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown) SNP
I thank the members of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee for their thoughtful and helpful consideration of the Trusts and Succession (Scotland) B...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate and to confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will support the bill at decision time. As the minister outlined, this is ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee clerks and all those who have been involved in the bill. This is a technical bill, but it will have real impacts on people’s lives. I h...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
The victims of McClure’s state that most people who have been let down by McClure’s do not yet know that they are victims and that the situation is vastly un...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I absolutely agree with Bob Doris and I pay tribute to him for giving voice to the victims of McClure’s and inviting them to Parliament to speak to MSPs. I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 16:46
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
First, I will touch on the McClure situation. I raised it in the committee because constituents, some of whom have been seriously affected, came to me with t...
Bob Doris SNP
Hear! Hear!
Stuart McMillan SNP
Thank you. I thank those who contributed to the committee’s scrutiny of the bill, whether in writing or by appearing before the committee during one of the ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I begin by thanking the Scottish Law Commission for its detailed and technical work during more than a decade on the different elements of the bill. I am gra...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, I spoke in the stage 1 debate on the Trusts and Successions (Scotland) Bill in September. It is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Like hitting the microphone with your papers, there are various ways of gaining the Parliament’s attention. We now move to closing speeches. 16:58
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I think that the most recent attempt at awakening the chamber was more successful than your whacking the microphone earlier, Deputy Presiding Officer. Scott...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I hope that members will be able to hear some of the speech from where I am taking part in the debate this afternoon. I am pleased to be able to speak in tod...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I ask Siobhian Brown to wind up. 17:04
Siobhian Brown SNP
I thank the members who have contributed to the debate. There is a general consensus that the law on trusts is outdated, and the changes that are proposed in...