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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 November 2023

23 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Don-Innes, Natalie SNP Renfrewshire North and West Watch on SPTV

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

With apologies to Pam Duncan-Glancy, as I said earlier, I will come on to those points. For now, I am just laying out my concerns, which were reiterated by the committee’s convener.

It is also unclear who would be responsible for managing and implementing individual transition plans, particularly when a young person has left school. The bill mandates a plan for each young person, even if a young person does not want one. I believe that planning should be person led and that it should adapt flexibly to what the young person finds most helpful.

The committee has also recognised concerns, which the Government highlighted in its evidence at stage 1, about

“duplication and overlap of key aspects of existing legislation”.

The committee’s report concludes that the bill risks creating

“additional complexity and confusion”

for

“disabled young people and their families, as well as for professionals trying to navigate this landscape”.

That has been mirrored in feedback from stakeholders; many stakeholders who responded to the committee’s call for views or provided evidence raised similar concerns. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities said that it

“does not support the call for a new Bill as there is significant Legislation already in place.”

The Association of Directors of Education in Scotland suggested that

“there is reasonable and appropriate legislation already in place”.

The Association for Real Change Scotland said that it continues

“to have multiple concerns about whether the Bill in its present form will meet its intended aims.”

We agree with the findings of the committee, and many of those who provided views to it, including COSLA and a number of local authorities and integration joint boards, on the uncertainty of the bill’s cost implications and the likely underestimation in the financial memorandum.

It is clear that, should the bill progress to stage 2, it would require substantial amendment to address the legal and practical issues that have been raised.

I reiterate my thanks to Pam Duncan-Glancy for her tireless work on this important matter. I will continue to work with her on our shared ambition of improving transitions for disabled young people, regardless of the outcome of today’s debate. However, for the reasons that I have set out, the Scottish Government agrees with the committee’s conclusions and with the view—which has been expressed by COSLA, organisations such as the Association for Real Change Scotland and others—that the bill will not necessarily deliver on its laudable aim of resolving the issues that are experienced by disabled young people. I am sure that the focus and the priority that we are taking forward will do that.

15:40  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11381, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulth...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. “Thank God for that; now I can be your mum again.” Those were my mum’s words when we heard that my transition to adult...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Sue Webber to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 15:23
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to be speaking on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. First, I thank the member in charge for introducing the bill, wh...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I was one of the members who had the privilege of being on that visit. Does Sue Webber agree that what was outstanding from that visit was the quality of the...
Sue Webber Con
I agree. We have found many times that the people who are having an impact and making positive changes to disabled people as they transition into adulthood a...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Can the member set out whether the committee has had confirmation of when the strategy will be published?
Sue Webber Con
I have not yet had that detail. Perhaps the Government can make that clear in its contributions during the debate. Make no mistake, we intend to return to t...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Ms Webber will remember that, in recognition of that fact, I said in the committee that I could amend the bill at stage 2 to take the part about diagnosis ou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give Ms Webber a wee bit of time back.
Sue Webber Con
The inability to define that formed part of the crux of the challenges that we faced regarding the accuracy of the financial memorandum. We know now—and we a...
The Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise (Natalie Don) SNP
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for the spotlight that her bill has shone on transitions to adulthood for disabled people and for setting out her personal experien...
Stephen Kerr Con
If the strategy is to be published by the end of next year, when, in the minister’s estimation, will there be a change in young people’s life experience as t...
Natalie Don SNP
We are already taking action now, through the statement of intent. We are listening to feedback and encouraging further action. As I said, the strategy, whic...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the minister for clarifying the publication date for the strategy. However, I still think that it is too late, and I echo the concerns of my colleagu...
Natalie Don SNP
I will come on to much of that later in my speech. If Pam Duncan-Glancy is happy for me to do so, I will set that out as I go along. I absolutely want things...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The definition of who will be covered by the bill is the same as that proposed by the Government in its strategy.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give the minister a bit of time back for interventions.
Natalie Don SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. With apologies to Pam Duncan-Glancy, as I said earlier, I will come on to those points. For now, I am just laying out my conce...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I have come late to the bill, consideration of which was well in train by the time I joined the Education, Children and Young People Committee right before t...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a great pleasure to open the debate on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of Scottish Labour. ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I agree with everyone who has spoken about the bill’s laudable aims, but the question is how it will actually change the experience of the young people who a...
Martin Whitfield Lab
The Scottish Government would be required to have a strategy to explain. It would have to appoint a minister to take responsibility, and local authorities wo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can allow time for the intervention, if the member wishes to take it.
Martin Whitfield Lab
Let me finish this. My apologies. The parent said: “strangely enough, this was where he successfully graduated with a 2:1”. If we fail our disabled young ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
When I first became a member of Parliament for Dunfermline, I met the parents involved in something called the Diamond Association. They were the most feroci...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Does the member agree that it is a shame that the first commitment that we had from the Government on the issue was in 2016, and we are still waiting?
Willie Rennie LD
That is one of the reasons why I am conflicted about the bill. I understand: legislation is permanent—it is there on the statute book and it creates a compul...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I remind members that speeches are to be of up to six minutes, please. 16:00