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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 November 2023

23 Nov 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

“Thank God for that; now I can be your mum again.”

Those were my mum’s words when we heard that my transition to adulthood had—at last—been agreed. After a lifetime of fighting, wading through swathes of policy and papers that would put a library to shame, being up at the school more often than I was and watching me defer entry to university for two years because of the lack of a transitions plan, my mum could finally retire as the project manager that she had been forced to be. We were exhausted by the time, energy, brain and body power needed simply to give me a fighting chance of fulfilling my dreams.

That was 23 years ago, but there are still hundreds of thousands of families like mine, voiceless and struggling to get the fighting chance that they deserve. It is for them that I have introduced the bill and it is incumbent on all of us to be their voice today and every day and to make laws that improve their lives. They do not need warm words or good will—they need laws to clearly set out that they have rights.

Johann Lamont MSP knew that in session 5 of this Parliament when she first introduced the bill, and I put my thanks to her on the record today.

I also thank Inclusion Scotland and Camphill Scotland for their support. They can see that the current system is failing, and it takes only a quick glance at the evidence to see just how badly. When Jamie Hepburn MSP asked a parliamentary question on the subject in 2008, disabled people were three times more likely than others not to be in education, employment or training; 15 years later, there is little evidence that that has changed. Disabled people are still considerably more likely than their non-disabled peers to have no qualifications, the disability employment gap for young disabled people is 31 per cent, and only 7 per cent of learning-disabled people are in work.

Those are damning indictments of a systemic failure that is locking disabled people out of opportunity and holding our country back. The fact that I find the hardest to hear is that young disabled people have the same aspirations as their peers at age 16, but, by 26, believe that nothing that they can do will change their lives. At a time when they should be excited about their future, we are stripping them of hope.

Two decades ago, my mum described that as falling off a cliff. Just two months ago, a disabled young person described it to me in similar terms. She said:

“It’s like being thrown in the deep end and expected to know how to swim.”

So little has changed.

We all agree that inaction is not an option, and my inbox is full of the reasons why. It is full of messages from young disabled people who are preparing to leave school with no plans and no options. I particularly thank the mums and dads, disabled people, Differabled Scotland, Glasgow Disability Alliance, Children’s Hospices Across Scotland, Enable Scotland, Diabetes Scotland, Inclusion Scotland, Spina Bifida Scotland and many more organisations, many of which are represented in the gallery here today, for highlighting the lived experience of disabled people in Scotland. Their experience tells us what the Education, Children and Young People Committee’s report concluded, which is that existing approaches are complex, cluttered and difficult to navigate, disconnected, stressful and ultimately not delivering a Scotland where disabled people can flourish.

The bill before us is an opportunity to fix that, which is why I am deeply disappointed that the Government said on Tuesday that it does not intend to support it today. I hope to use the remaining time that I have in the debate to convince all members to listen to disabled people and their families and to do what they are asking, which is to change the law. It is not too late to do the right thing.

I put on record my thanks to the committee for its work on the bill, and to the countless disabled people and their families who responded to the inquiry, told their stories and shared their worst fears. If nothing else convinces colleagues that we should act, their tenacity in fighting for change should. I hugely welcome the light that has been shone on the issue and the work that the committee did, and I welcome many of the committee’s conclusions about the need for change. Indeed, such is the case for change that the committee report could be described as a dossier of the failures in the current system.

There are many ways to change that and I welcome the minister’s offer to work together to identify collective solutions. However, I remain firmly of the opinion that, although the proposed changes in practice and policy are sorely needed, we will not change disabled people’s lives unless we change the law.

I say to the minister that I am disappointed by her letter to the committee. It seems that the offer to work together will rely on me being content to ask families to wait and see whether existing non-legislative routes will work, although it is clear that they do not. That has been clear for years, and I am not content to ask people to wait any longer. Disabled people cannot keep waiting and seeing whether the next strategy will work or whether good practice will magically spread. Angela Morgan’s review of additional support for learning concluded that the system is overly dependent on committed individuals, that it is fragmented and inconsistent and, crucially, that ASL is treated as being someone else’s problem. That someone else is usually a parent, a carer or an overworked member of staff.

The bill that is before us today seeks to change that. It gives a minister responsibility for transitions; it puts a strategy to sort this out in law; it gives young disabled people a right to a plan for their transition from school; and it empowers organisations to work together to lighten the load of overburdened families.

The rights and opportunities of young people should not be left to chance or rest on their luck in finding a sympathetic ear or having a carer or parent who has the resources, energy and time to keep fighting. It should also not rest on manifesto commitments and ministers acting in good faith. The SNP manifesto in 2016 committed to a national transitions strategy. Young disabled people who went to school then have now left with no strategy, almost all of them with no plan and with their future in tatters.

It is fair to say that the legislative landscape is cluttered and complex. I ask the Government, “Why not take the opportunity of this bill to clarify it?” However, as well as being complex, I agree with Angela Morgan that it is full of loopholes, which is why we need new law. One such loophole concerns the right to a plan. The committee’s report and the Government rely on provisions in the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 and the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. The provision in the 2014 act that is referred to is about children’s plans. The relevant section of that act was never brought into force and the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, if passed, will repeal it. There is therefore no statutory basis for such plans.

The provision in the ASL act that is cited is about co-ordinated support plans. Only 0.2% of eligible children access such a plan, and their provision is limited by whether a local authority sees fit to exchange information with the agency about an individual child. There is no absolute right to a transition plan or a requirement to start them early, and the plans are not focused on transitions or disabled people. Nothing in existing law does what I propose in the bill.

Nothing of substance has changed since the Government proposed its strategy seven years ago. The system is still broken. The committee described many of those failures as an “implementation gap”. The Government’s response says that it will spread good practice to address that, but what its response does not say is that the evaluation of the principles into practice approach found that, when resources were tight, pressure on staff and services meant that they had to prioritise other work above the principles into practice work. Without a statutory framework for a strategy, how will transitions be protected in tough times?

I say that not to underplay the importance of that work, but to highlight that a non-statutory approach piloted in 10 authorities—which has shown that, when resources are tight, its work is sidelined—is not enough. This is not an argument against legislation, but one that shows what good work could be done if it was underpinned by legislation.

Disabled people are sick and tired of their rights hinging on good will. Today, on international carers day, we could transform not just the lives of young disabled people, but the lives of carers, too, because we know that incredible stress is put on family and parents. When I was elected, I promised to put the ladder or the ramp out for other disabled people to follow. That starts by making sure that they have a clear right to a future in law, with mechanisms to hold people to account and make sure that disabled people have a fighting chance.

We have an opportunity today to do that—to get ahead of the incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and move from reliance on some good people to some good law. Today, we can put principles not just into practice, but into legislation, too. Today, we have an opportunity to vote to change the lives of every young disabled person in the country. We should take it, and I sincerely hope that we will.

I move,

That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11381, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulth...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. “Thank God for that; now I can be your mum again.” Those were my mum’s words when we heard that my transition to adult...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Sue Webber to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 15:23
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to be speaking on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. First, I thank the member in charge for introducing the bill, wh...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I was one of the members who had the privilege of being on that visit. Does Sue Webber agree that what was outstanding from that visit was the quality of the...
Sue Webber Con
I agree. We have found many times that the people who are having an impact and making positive changes to disabled people as they transition into adulthood a...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Can the member set out whether the committee has had confirmation of when the strategy will be published?
Sue Webber Con
I have not yet had that detail. Perhaps the Government can make that clear in its contributions during the debate. Make no mistake, we intend to return to t...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Ms Webber will remember that, in recognition of that fact, I said in the committee that I could amend the bill at stage 2 to take the part about diagnosis ou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give Ms Webber a wee bit of time back.
Sue Webber Con
The inability to define that formed part of the crux of the challenges that we faced regarding the accuracy of the financial memorandum. We know now—and we a...
The Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise (Natalie Don) SNP
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for the spotlight that her bill has shone on transitions to adulthood for disabled people and for setting out her personal experien...
Stephen Kerr Con
If the strategy is to be published by the end of next year, when, in the minister’s estimation, will there be a change in young people’s life experience as t...
Natalie Don SNP
We are already taking action now, through the statement of intent. We are listening to feedback and encouraging further action. As I said, the strategy, whic...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the minister for clarifying the publication date for the strategy. However, I still think that it is too late, and I echo the concerns of my colleagu...
Natalie Don SNP
I will come on to much of that later in my speech. If Pam Duncan-Glancy is happy for me to do so, I will set that out as I go along. I absolutely want things...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The definition of who will be covered by the bill is the same as that proposed by the Government in its strategy.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give the minister a bit of time back for interventions.
Natalie Don SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. With apologies to Pam Duncan-Glancy, as I said earlier, I will come on to those points. For now, I am just laying out my conce...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I have come late to the bill, consideration of which was well in train by the time I joined the Education, Children and Young People Committee right before t...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a great pleasure to open the debate on the Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill on behalf of Scottish Labour. ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I agree with everyone who has spoken about the bill’s laudable aims, but the question is how it will actually change the experience of the young people who a...
Martin Whitfield Lab
The Scottish Government would be required to have a strategy to explain. It would have to appoint a minister to take responsibility, and local authorities wo...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can allow time for the intervention, if the member wishes to take it.
Martin Whitfield Lab
Let me finish this. My apologies. The parent said: “strangely enough, this was where he successfully graduated with a 2:1”. If we fail our disabled young ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
When I first became a member of Parliament for Dunfermline, I met the parents involved in something called the Diamond Association. They were the most feroci...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Does the member agree that it is a shame that the first commitment that we had from the Government on the issue was in 2016, and we are still waiting?
Willie Rennie LD
That is one of the reasons why I am conflicted about the bill. I understand: legislation is permanent—it is there on the statute book and it creates a compul...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. I remind members that speeches are to be of up to six minutes, please. 16:00