Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,833
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,096,833 contributions in session S6, 11 May 2026 – 10 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 2,655. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 09 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 February 2024

29 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Here we are again, debating another iteration of what was, in essence, a line in the SNP’s manifesto in 2021. The election was three years ago, and we are here again, with another amorphous form looking for a function. I will come back to that.

Yesterday, in the debate on Jackie Baillie’s motion to refer the bill back to the lead committee, the focus from the Government evoked the establishment of the national health service. I am gratified that that has not happened so far today—although I dare say that it might—but the rhetoric would suggest that we are on the threshold of some great reform, and that the names of Beveridge and Nye Bevan are soon to be joined in the annals of our national story by the likes of Kevin Stewart and Maree Todd. However, we are not on the edge of a great reform. This is an amorphous and ever-changing structure that is looking for a role in our society. All that we have heard from Opposition members such as Jackie Baillie and Sandesh Gulhane—and rightly so—is that it is still to find that role in our society.

I have heard the minister suggest that the Liberal Democrats, in their staunch opposition to the bill and the establishment of a national care service, would also have opposed the national health service, were we all transported back to 1948. However, you will recall, Presiding Officer, that although the vision for the NHS was executed by a Labour parliamentarian, it was the brainchild of a Liberal parliamentarian, William Beveridge. When William Beveridge wrote the Beveridge report, he identified five great evils in our society: ignorance, idleness, squalor, want and disease. It was the final one that he felt was most important in establishing a basis on which we had equal access to healthcare that was free at the point of delivery and readily available in every community of this country.

In relation to the national care service, the nomenclature is where the similarities end. We know that this is a form looking for a function. No lives will be saved in its creation. Nobody who did not get free care yesterday will get it on the implementation and royal assent of the bill. No care workers will be paid any more as a result of it, but we will be paying the cost of it through the taxpayer purse. There are significant concerns about the bill among stakeholders and, indeed, members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. We have heard some of that today. The committee report on the bill has been damning. The word “concerns” features 28 times in the summary alone.

Around 238,000 people receive social care support in Scotland. Many of them will be known to those of us in the chamber and many of them will be related to us. That is 4 per cent of our population. Social care is a vital and important part of our society. Those who work in it and manage the sector are clear that it needs to be better funded and, of course, that it needs reform, but they are not talking about the ministerial power grab of centralisation that lines the pages of the bill. Do not take my word for it. Listen to COSLA, which just this week said:

“the reality is that national funding decisions ... will further squeeze local care and social work services which are already under incredible pressure.”

COSLA put out a briefing this afternoon saying that, despite the agreement that it has come to with the Government, it still harbours significant reservations, particularly about the nature of the funding settlement that it has been met with this week. Instead of providing support, the Government has delivered a hammer blow to local authorities in its budget.

It is hard to imagine a worse plan for social care than the one that is before us or a worse time for its execution than now. It is a bureaucratic exercise that will cost large sums of money and consume vast amounts of time. Right from the start, there have been serious concerns about its skyrocketing costs, which could reach more than £2 billion, and about the design process. Each and every iteration of the bill has proved to be outrageously expensive and completely unworkable. That is why we keep having to go back to the drawing board, and why the Government has deferred it and deferred it again.

Care organisations, unions and local authorities have united to condemn the bill. Even SNP Finance and Public Administration Committee members have suggested that the sums do not add up, and there are still hesitations and concerns among the members of that committee. It is no wonder that the bill has been pushed back three times. I put it to you, Presiding Officer, that we are only here now because the SNP is running out of parliamentary time to deliver on its flagship manifesto commitment before we rise for the next Scottish parliamentary elections. That is why we are here today.

Just when the sector needs clarity and support, the Government has embarked on a grand bureaucratic crusade that is characterised by confusion and chaos. It is form looking for function.

Scottish Liberal Democrats have always rejected plans for a ministerial takeover of social care, and we always will. We firmly believe that local authorities, care providers and those on the front lines are best placed to make decisions about how to implement and structure care services in their communities. We believe that power works best when it is as close as possible to the people whom it is there to serve.

However, there is yet more confusion around just what powers ministers would be given as part of the plans, with the committee report saying:

“It remains unclear to what extent Scottish Ministers will have similarly extensive powers with respect to the proposed National Care Service Board.”

The Government is all over the place on that.

Right from the start, things have not been done properly. The committee says that one of its challenges with the bill is

“the lack of available detail at the start of”

its scrutiny. Only this morning, the minister circulated a target operating model for the national care service, which we have been waiting for for a long time. On the day that we are expected to vote on the bill’s general principles, we are given that. It is simply not the way that we should do things.

We are now forced to waste our time voting on a hollowed-out nothingburger of a bill that does zero to address the very real issues in social care—a bill that no one on the front lines wanted in the first place. It will not make care free at the point of delivery; it will not make care a profession of choice; and it will not relieve the interruption in flow that is currently causing a crisis in our NHS, because people cannot be released from hospital because there is no adequate provision in our communities to receive them.

Free up the funds of this billion-pound bureaucracy. Scrap the bill today and use the money to improve the pay and working conditions of our social care staff, whose selfless, quiet and heroic efforts often go unnoticed and unrewarded.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12331, in the name of Maree Todd, on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I note that w...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I thank everyone who has contributed to the consultation on the national care service, our co-design sessions, the annual forums and the many meetings that m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As a disabled person and a user of social care, and as someone who gets a lot of representations on the subject in my inbox, as many of us do, I have to say ...
Maree Todd SNP
I agree that people have waited a great deal of time for this change, but let me assure the member and the public that change is coming. Over the past 10 yea...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister is about to conclude.
Maree Todd SNP
The experts are the people who use community health and social care, as well as unpaid carers and the staff who provide the care. I repeat that the status q...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:03
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which shows that I hold a bank staff nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. I...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that Clare Haughey mentioned Anne’s law, and I welcome the report’s recommendations. I note that the committee agreed that Anne’s law should be ful...
Clare Haughey SNP
The committee considered the bill in its entirety, including all the different sections, one of which concerns Anne’s law. The consensus agreement with the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:12
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for missing the first minute of the minister’s opening speech. I also convey my thanks to the Finance and Public A...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a practising NHS general practitioner. I am also a member of the Parliament’s Heal...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Social care is in crisis right now. Care packages for some of our most vulnerable people are being cut, almost 10,000 people are stuck waiting to receive ass...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Here we are again, debating another iteration of what was, in essence, a line in the SNP’s manifesto in 2021. The election was three years ago, and we are he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Cole-Hamilton, you must conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That is what we should be focusing on today and not this ill-fated bureaucratic waste of time. 15:37
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee who has been present during the entirety of the committee’s scrutiny of the bill and preparation o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Does Emma Harper agree that, as part of that, we must also look at self-directed support and how that is delivered across the country? When we look at the na...
Emma Harper SNP
I will come on to self-directed support, but it is part of the complex landscape that needs to be reformed, so that we can make changes and help to support t...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When a major committee of this Parliament concludes that it is concerned that the Scottish Government has, so far, been unable to articulate and communicate ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
I think that everyone agrees on the critical importance of social care. It is a requirement for more and more people in society, and that will continue, due ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I understand that the member has been asking for the target operating model for some time. Does he think that it is acceptable that it appeared only yesterda...
Ivan McKee SNP
As Jackie Baillie identifies, the committee has been asking for that information for a while, and I am glad that it came out before the debate. To be fair, t...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks and members for their participation in the process. The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bol...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill offers us the opportunity to build care services that truly reflect our shared values of dignity, fairness and resp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
What one difference will the bill make to somebody who is in receipt of social care today or tomorrow? What one difference will it make to their life?
Kevin Stewart SNP
It will make a difference through having a care service that is not only fit for today but right for tomorrow. I know that the minister is working with great...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I echo my colleagues’ thanks to the clerks and those who gave evidence to the committee. There i...