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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 February 2024

29 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Todd, Maree SNP Caithness, Sutherland and Ross Watch on SPTV

I agree that people have waited a great deal of time for this change, but let me assure the member and the public that change is coming. Over the past 10 years and more, we have established that primary legislation and structural change are required. There are parties in the Parliament that still oppose that idea. I absolutely agree with Pam Duncan-Glancy on the need for change—I am unequivocal about that. We will deliver change, and I am keen to work with everyone across the Parliament to deliver the change that Scotland needs and deserves.

The bill as introduced sets out the principles of a national care service. It commits to a national care service charter, it sets out a national approach to managing complaints, it sets out provisions relating to data sharing and care records, it includes provision for breaks for carers and it includes provision to enact Anne’s law so that people in care homes have the right to be visited by their families. The engagement that we have carried out over the past year reconfirms that all those provisions are essential to improving social care in Scotland, and they remain central to the Government’s planned approach.

As I have set out in some detail to the committees and in the information that I have shared with all members this week, I intend to make three significant changes to the bill at stage 2, should the Parliament agree to its general principles today. They respond to evidence that was taken at stage 1, they follow engagement with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the national health service, and they respond to on-going feedback from stakeholders.

These are the main changes that I want to make to the bill at stage 2: a national care service board will be established to oversee delivery across Scotland; we will not create new local care boards, as originally planned, but will, instead, reform existing integration authorities; and local authorities will retain responsibility for current functions and the delivery of social work and social care services, with no transfer of staff or assets.

That change in approach reflects the challenges of a new fiscal environment, in which it is more important than ever that we demonstrate value for money. The changes will substantively reduce the cost of the bill by removing the need to set up care boards and to transfer staff and assets. As I set out to the Finance and Public Administration Committee, that means that the cost of setting up the national care service will be up to £345 million over 10 years, whereas the proposals that were set out in the bill as introduced would have cost £1.6 billion over the same period. Collectively, we spend more than £5 billion a year on social care provision. The costs of change will be less than 1 per cent of current spend. We can make meaningful and lasting change for that relatively modest amount.

The national care service will bring change to children’s social care, social work and community health services. We have a real opportunity to improve the outcomes for children and families. An NCS will help to simplify the currently complex landscape for children and will lay the foundations to deliver much-needed improvements.

I will set out the difference that I believe the national care service board will make. The board will include, as a minimum, an independent chair, the Scottish Government, local government, the NHS and people who have lived experience of receiving and delivering community health and social care. The board will have an overview of the planning and delivery of community health and social care provision across Scotland. It will look at what is spent, what care is provided, who receives it and the outcomes for those people. The board will have a support and improvement framework that will drive improvement and innovation and will help local areas when monitoring indicates that standards and needs are not being met, and it will intervene if necessary.

The national board will give us a level of transparency that is not possible in the current system. It will let us understand where there are inconsistencies in people’s experiences across Scotland, build on good practice and tackle challenges. It will reflect the approach that we have taken to building the national care service by ensuring that we listen to the voices of the experts—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12331, in the name of Maree Todd, on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I note that w...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I thank everyone who has contributed to the consultation on the national care service, our co-design sessions, the annual forums and the many meetings that m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
As a disabled person and a user of social care, and as someone who gets a lot of representations on the subject in my inbox, as many of us do, I have to say ...
Maree Todd SNP
I agree that people have waited a great deal of time for this change, but let me assure the member and the public that change is coming. Over the past 10 yea...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister is about to conclude.
Maree Todd SNP
The experts are the people who use community health and social care, as well as unpaid carers and the staff who provide the care. I repeat that the status q...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:03
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which shows that I hold a bank staff nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. I...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that Clare Haughey mentioned Anne’s law, and I welcome the report’s recommendations. I note that the committee agreed that Anne’s law should be ful...
Clare Haughey SNP
The committee considered the bill in its entirety, including all the different sections, one of which concerns Anne’s law. The consensus agreement with the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:12
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for missing the first minute of the minister’s opening speech. I also convey my thanks to the Finance and Public A...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a practising NHS general practitioner. I am also a member of the Parliament’s Heal...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Social care is in crisis right now. Care packages for some of our most vulnerable people are being cut, almost 10,000 people are stuck waiting to receive ass...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Here we are again, debating another iteration of what was, in essence, a line in the SNP’s manifesto in 2021. The election was three years ago, and we are he...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Cole-Hamilton, you must conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
That is what we should be focusing on today and not this ill-fated bureaucratic waste of time. 15:37
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee who has been present during the entirety of the committee’s scrutiny of the bill and preparation o...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
Does Emma Harper agree that, as part of that, we must also look at self-directed support and how that is delivered across the country? When we look at the na...
Emma Harper SNP
I will come on to self-directed support, but it is part of the complex landscape that needs to be reformed, so that we can make changes and help to support t...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When a major committee of this Parliament concludes that it is concerned that the Scottish Government has, so far, been unable to articulate and communicate ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
I think that everyone agrees on the critical importance of social care. It is a requirement for more and more people in society, and that will continue, due ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I understand that the member has been asking for the target operating model for some time. Does he think that it is acceptable that it appeared only yesterda...
Ivan McKee SNP
As Jackie Baillie identifies, the committee has been asking for that information for a while, and I am glad that it came out before the debate. To be fair, t...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the clerks and members for their participation in the process. The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bol...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill offers us the opportunity to build care services that truly reflect our shared values of dignity, fairness and resp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
What one difference will the bill make to somebody who is in receipt of social care today or tomorrow? What one difference will it make to their life?
Kevin Stewart SNP
It will make a difference through having a care service that is not only fit for today but right for tomorrow. I know that the minister is working with great...
Gillian Mackay (Central Scotland) (Green) Green
As a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I echo my colleagues’ thanks to the clerks and those who gave evidence to the committee. There i...