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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 February 2024

28 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Qualifications and Assessment
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

I have a lot to cram into four minutes, but the cabinet secretary need not worry—I can write to her at length about this if required. I agree with Liam Kerr and Willie Rennie that we also need at least one full afternoon’s debate.

The Greens have long argued against high-stakes, end-of-term exams and in favour of continuous assessment. We want to see a rounded measurement of a student’s knowledge and ability, not a snapshot of how they respond to specific circumstances, which can be significantly affected by variables such as illness.

The pandemic gave us comparative data sets, which prove that there is a problem here somewhere. In 2020, there were no exams and grades were eventually issued on the basis of teachers’ professional judgment. Attainment went up across the board, but the attainment of working-class kids went up far more—the attainment gap narrowed. In 2021, there were no exams again. There were quasi, internal exams in schools, with the same effect but to a lesser extent.

Either normal exams are devaluing working-class students or teacher judgment is overestimating them. I trust teacher judgment to a significant extent, but, whatever side we come down on, the question needs to be answered as we go on with the process: why do traditional high-stakes, end-of-term exam models result in such a wide attainment gap between those from the most and the least deprived backgrounds, whereas models that base grades on evidence that is generated through continuous assessment or teacher judgment result in a far narrower gap?

The reality is that our exam and assessment system has not changed since the Victorian era, but we know so much more about young people, learning and how to measure attainment and achievement than we did back then. In Scotland, we overassess, and we often assess the wrong things. We are valuing what we measure, not measuring what we value. Young people, colleges, universities and employers want more than that. Professor Hayward’s recommendations are the opportunity to move from the 19th to the 21st century.

I recognise the tension between the appetite for reform and the clear message from teachers that the current system is not achieving what we want, and the sense—primarily also from teachers—that they are already overwhelmed and would struggle with more change. We certainly cannot increase teacher workload by adding more internal assessment responsibilities on top of existing ones, but we need to break that impasse. I am glad that the motion makes clear that the intention is to achieve significant reform in this parliamentary session.

Young people have repeatedly made it clear through consultation that they overwhelmingly want those reforms, particularly the move to continuous assessment. We saw that in the review of the 2021 alternative certification model. A move away from external exams requires trust in teachers—the kind of trust that exists in other systems, such as in Finland. However, Scottish teachers do not feel trusted by the SQA. Many feel that the standardised assessments indicate a lack of trust by the Scottish Government.

There are a couple of specific issues, which I will run through, that I think we need to address. Professor Stobart highlighted that in having external exams in all three years of the senior phase we are an outlier. That is a key reason why we are not really delivering CFE in the senior phase—we are teaching to the exam. The Greens would rather end external examination in S4, but we recognise the need to mitigate against qualifications without an external examination being seen as lesser. We want to see a reduced role for exams across the senior phase.

We also need to resolve the contradiction between the ability to choose up to nine national 5s and each course requiring at least 140 hours. We cannot timetable nine times 140 hours in a school year. That speaks to a wider misalignment between the curriculum and the qualifications systems, as identified by the OECD. That, in turn, is the result of a lack of cohesion between the SQA and Education Scotland. The governance reforms need to address that, potentially by putting more strategic direction within the Government’s learning directorate.

The Greens are very enthusiastic about Professor Hayward’s recommendations, and I urge the cabinet secretary to implement them pretty much in full. I have one caveat about the diploma—we need to make sure that those who do not get a diploma do not end up with the stigma that exists in systems such as that in the US around not graduating from high school.

There is a really important opportunity for employers, in particular, with the personal pathway and project learning, which will recognise a potential candidate’s teamworking skills, leadership abilities and communication skills—aspects that traditional subject qualifications do not give an indication of to an employer.

I have barely scratched the surface, but I recognise the need to wind up. There are many more issues to touch on, but there is a high expectation that we achieve a lot with the reform process. There is a relatively high level of consensus, so we cannot afford half measures.

One clear lesson from the most recent reform to curriculum for excellence was that it was a mistake to do only half of it and not to reform qualifications at the same time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12304, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the recommendations of the independent review of qualifications a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to open this important debate on the recommendations of the independent review of qualifications and assessment. On Monday, I met teaching profe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that all the factors that she has set out are reasons for introducing reform rather than delaying it?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The context that the member has addressed is important. However, as she knows, I built in an additional year, which has been important in allowing us to bett...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary postulates a fascinating idea. With regard to the maths specialist, we are looking at implementation not in this academic year and, pos...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
There are two elements to that, the first of which is curriculum improvement. The curriculum improvement that I announced in December will have a maths speci...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
When will the new qualifications body be up and running? Which cohort of pupils will take the exams that it will set?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I gave some of that information when I responded to the previous intervention from Pam Duncan-Glancy’s colleague. I will legislate for the creation of the ne...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on what has become known colloquially as the Hayward review. Arguably—I think that Ross Greer will pick up on this point later—we sho...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I agree that simply putting the project learning on to an already unequal system will increase that inequality. I am interested in Mr Kerr’s perspective on t...
Liam Kerr Con
That is an interesting point. The key to that goes back to what I was talking about earlier: we really need to interrogate what is going on here. We need to ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I start by thanking Professor Louise Hayward and her team, and all the teachers, pupils, support staff and parents, for the work that they did on the report....
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Earlier, I made the point that we currently have quite a cluttered approach to qualifications in the school sector. Should some of the subjects to which the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Those opportunities need to be available to children and young people, wherever they are. Some children and young people will flourish in those subjects in s...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I welcome the constructive and open discussion that we had last week with the cabinet secretary. I thought that that was quite a helpful session; she was muc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As we move to the open debate, I remind all members who wish to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. I advise members that ba...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
The SNP Government has an excellent track record of investing in Scottish education. We have significantly more teachers per pupil than Tory-led England or L...
Willie Rennie LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
No—I do not have enough time. Sorry. That has gone some way to reducing the poverty-related attainment gap, which is a massive issue in my constituency. At ...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
We cannot afford to think that curriculum for excellence, which was introduced in 2010-11, will still be fit for purpose by the end of this century. Indeed, ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
The debate is hugely important and it is critical to get it right, not just for our young people and learners more widely but for the wider economy and socie...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
First, I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills has consulted those in the school and college teaching professions. That was th...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the publication of “It’s Our Future”, the final report of the independent review of qualifications and assessment. I agree “that it is crucial tha...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I have a lot to cram into four minutes, but the cabinet secretary need not worry—I can write to her at length about this if required. I agree with Liam Kerr ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Please conclude, Mr Greer.
Ross Greer Green
We cannot do that again. We need to be brave and seize the opportunity to create a system that will serve young people in our society for decades. 16:49
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I will use my time today to emphasise some of what Professor Hayward has said. First, I draw Parliament’s attention to the evidence that we received from her...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I have enjoyed listening to today’s debate, but a little bit of balance always has to be inserted into our debates. Interruption. The cabinet secretary groan...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Does Oliver Mundell agree that youth work could feed in exceptionally well to those groups of people and provide support that they might not otherwise get?
Oliver Mundell Con
I acknowledge that. However, the very good youth work services in my patch, which are award winning and for which I have huge admiration, do not have the res...