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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 February 2024

28 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Qualifications and Assessment
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

First, I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills has consulted those in the school and college teaching professions. That was the right thing to do, and it was good. The proof of the pudding will be what views are then taken on board, but that was the right approach.

The cabinet secretary also said that reform must come alongside driving educational improvement. I agree with that. That must be done to address some of the issues that we currently have in our education system, which are widely publicised in the media and elsewhere.

The review considered short-term, medium-term and long-term priorities, but, on reading the review, they are all quite similar. The review says that reform needs to be underpinned by adequate and sustained funding to increase the number of teaching and support staff. That is a major issue that has come up during the past few months.

Issues in education have been raised, by teaching staff in particular, during the many meetings that I have had with the sector. I know that the cabinet secretary has had such meetings, too. Teacher workload is an important issue, and it is continually raised when we speak to teachers or when we meet with trade unions.

Another issue is support for pupils with additional support needs. As I have said to the cabinet secretary before, I have met parents with children who have additional support needs who have said that they feel that getting it right for every child has not necessarily worked through the mainstream in schools. However, they made the point that, if we want to get it right for every child by mainstreaming, we have to ensure that there is support for kids with additional support needs.

There are big issues that need to be addressed. There are also issues related to curricular and technological resources. Sometimes, schools in more prosperous areas are able to raise lots of funds and they have the very best equipment, while schools in the less prosperous areas do not have that resource. It is important to consider that.

Willie Rennie raised a point about behaviour. We have to set out what is acceptable, what is not acceptable and what the consequences are. Teachers are crying out for that. Teachers tell me that it is not always clear that there will be consequences for poor behaviour. The cabinet secretary will quite rightly point out that the majority of pupils in schools are generally well behaved and are getting on with things, but it just takes one child in a classroom to completely disrupt that class. We need to be much firmer and much clearer.

I remember speaking to a teacher some months ago and mentioning the word “discipline”, referring to being disciplined when I was at school. The teacher made the point to me that teachers are not encouraged to use the word “discipline” in schools. They have to talk about “positive outcomes” and “positive behaviours”. Let us be absolutely clear with kids: they are expected to be disciplined when they are in the school, and they cannot disrupt the education of everyone else. Clear guidance has to be given around that.

I really believe in one of the points that was made in response to the consultation. It was

“said that this was one of the most important recommendations. Respondents emphasised the need for equal recognition of academic and vocational qualifications.”

That is absolutely correct. A lot of pupils may go on to do academic work later in life, but we have to ensure that the route for vocational education is improved and enhanced compared to where it is now.

That is me out of time. Thank you, Presiding Officer.

16:41  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12304, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the recommendations of the independent review of qualifications a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to open this important debate on the recommendations of the independent review of qualifications and assessment. On Monday, I met teaching profe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that all the factors that she has set out are reasons for introducing reform rather than delaying it?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The context that the member has addressed is important. However, as she knows, I built in an additional year, which has been important in allowing us to bett...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary postulates a fascinating idea. With regard to the maths specialist, we are looking at implementation not in this academic year and, pos...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
There are two elements to that, the first of which is curriculum improvement. The curriculum improvement that I announced in December will have a maths speci...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
When will the new qualifications body be up and running? Which cohort of pupils will take the exams that it will set?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I gave some of that information when I responded to the previous intervention from Pam Duncan-Glancy’s colleague. I will legislate for the creation of the ne...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate on what has become known colloquially as the Hayward review. Arguably—I think that Ross Greer will pick up on this point later—we sho...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I agree that simply putting the project learning on to an already unequal system will increase that inequality. I am interested in Mr Kerr’s perspective on t...
Liam Kerr Con
That is an interesting point. The key to that goes back to what I was talking about earlier: we really need to interrogate what is going on here. We need to ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I start by thanking Professor Louise Hayward and her team, and all the teachers, pupils, support staff and parents, for the work that they did on the report....
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Earlier, I made the point that we currently have quite a cluttered approach to qualifications in the school sector. Should some of the subjects to which the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Those opportunities need to be available to children and young people, wherever they are. Some children and young people will flourish in those subjects in s...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I welcome the constructive and open discussion that we had last week with the cabinet secretary. I thought that that was quite a helpful session; she was muc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As we move to the open debate, I remind all members who wish to speak to check that they have pressed their request-to-speak button. I advise members that ba...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
The SNP Government has an excellent track record of investing in Scottish education. We have significantly more teachers per pupil than Tory-led England or L...
Willie Rennie LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
No—I do not have enough time. Sorry. That has gone some way to reducing the poverty-related attainment gap, which is a massive issue in my constituency. At ...
Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con) Con
We cannot afford to think that curriculum for excellence, which was introduced in 2010-11, will still be fit for purpose by the end of this century. Indeed, ...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
The debate is hugely important and it is critical to get it right, not just for our young people and learners more widely but for the wider economy and socie...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
First, I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills has consulted those in the school and college teaching professions. That was th...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the publication of “It’s Our Future”, the final report of the independent review of qualifications and assessment. I agree “that it is crucial tha...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I have a lot to cram into four minutes, but the cabinet secretary need not worry—I can write to her at length about this if required. I agree with Liam Kerr ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Please conclude, Mr Greer.
Ross Greer Green
We cannot do that again. We need to be brave and seize the opportunity to create a system that will serve young people in our society for decades. 16:49
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I will use my time today to emphasise some of what Professor Hayward has said. First, I draw Parliament’s attention to the evidence that we received from her...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I have enjoyed listening to today’s debate, but a little bit of balance always has to be inserted into our debates. Interruption. The cabinet secretary groan...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Does Oliver Mundell agree that youth work could feed in exceptionally well to those groups of people and provide support that they might not otherwise get?
Oliver Mundell Con
I acknowledge that. However, the very good youth work services in my patch, which are award winning and for which I have huge admiration, do not have the res...