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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 February 2024

28 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Referral Back to Lead Committee at Stage 1

The minister said that focus on the parliamentary process was not needed, but this is not obtuse process—this is scrutiny. It is clear that this secretive Scottish National Party Government does not want scrutiny. The convener of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee was right to say that extensive scrutiny was performed, but, when secret fundamental changes happened, we were unable to perform proper scrutiny—for example, we took no evidence from COSLA regarding the consensus agreement. Does the minister not think that that might be important?

What are the facts? The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill was introduced on 20 June 2022, and the health committee started taking public evidence in October that year. Humza Yousaf realised that the bill was not going to work and pulled it. We had four delays that were instigated by the Government. With all that dither and delay, why are we rushing through stage 1, when we have no idea what the Government is doing?

Simply put, are the amendments ready, and, if they are, why the secrecy? If they are not, the Government simply needs to stop making it up as it goes along. The lead committee could not take appropriate evidence or ask appropriate questions, because we had not seen the bill due to massive and fundamental changes being made.

Our job is to scrutinise bills, and we cannot allow this precedent to be set or the role of committees will be undermined.

15:46  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12317, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: referral back to the ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I come to the chamber more in sorrow than in anger to move a motion to ask the Parliament to send the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill back to the Healt...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am entirely in agreement with what Jackie Baillie is saying.
The Minister for Local Government Empowerment and Planning (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
That is a surprise.
Liz Smith Con
Actually, it is not a surprise, because I think that we both have exactly the same views about the importance of scrutiny in the Parliament. Does Jackie Bai...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I absolutely do. The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee made the point that it is not good legislative practice to stick substantive decisions on spen...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a practising general practitioner in the national health service. I am also a member ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
There has been much talk from the Opposition about a framework bill. I remind members that the national health service was established in the United Kingdom ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart—
Kevin Stewart SNP
—to create an institution that works for all—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart, do you have some kind of question for the member?
Kevin Stewart SNP
It is a pity that Dr Gulhane and others do not have the radical edge that Nye Bevan and others did—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart! Dr Gulhane, please continue.
Sandesh Gulhane Con
Well, there was no question. If Mr Stewart wanted to speak, he should have put his name forward to do a speech. I ask members across the chamber to vote not...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill is our opportunity to reform the social care system in Scotland. I welcome the Parliament’s consideration of such a...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maree Todd SNP
I have five minutes. I will not be taking interventions. People across the country deserve better, and that is what the bill will bring. Most important, it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:37
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has undertaken extensive scrutiny of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill since its introduction in June 202...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I rise to support the motion in the name of Jackie Baillie. Presiding Officer, there is an element of ministerial cosplay at work here. If you listen to the...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
The minister said that focus on the parliamentary process was not needed, but this is not obtuse process—this is scrutiny. It is clear that this secretive Sc...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bold, ambitious and innovative. I am clear that it is not Scottish Labour ...