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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 February 2024

28 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Referral Back to Lead Committee at Stage 1

I come to the chamber more in sorrow than in anger to move a motion to ask the Parliament to send the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill back to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for further evidence taking and consideration before stage 1. This is only the second time that such a motion has been brought before the chamber—such is the seriousness with which this action is taken.

Members will know that I first proposed a national care service over a decade ago. That was in response to Clostridioides difficile, which ripped through our hospitals and care homes and caused deaths as a result. People were transferred from hospitals to care homes without testing, care staff were without adequate personal protective equipment, standards were variable, and there was little oversight at the time. That sounds all too familiar.

Although Nicola Sturgeon said no to a national care service 10 years ago, the Scottish National Party has changed its mind. I welcome all converts, no matter how late in the day.

I have long believed in a national care service, so I do not take this step lightly. Let me set out why I think that the Parliament needs to send the bill back to the committee. At this point, I record my thanks to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, the Finance and Public Administration Committee, the Education, Children and Young People Committee and many other committees besides, and all the clerks for their diligent work on this piece of legislation. That work has not been easy. However, my beef is not with them; it is with the Scottish Government.

Members should read the report from the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. It contains page after page of criticism, requests for clarity, and areas that are identified as requiring substantial improvement. The Finance and Public Administration Committee looked at the bill twice, and it was still highly dubious about the budget.

However, the real problem arises with a backroom deal that was done with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. That deal changes the fundamental governance structures of the national care service. Some might agree that the deal is a welcome change, but there are many in the independent sector and the voluntary sector and many people with lived experience of care who do not think that it is right. However, whether people agree or disagree is not the point; the point is that the committee has been unable to scrutinise the bill, as the Scottish Government has been unwilling to share its amendments before stage 2. Despite polite requests from the committee, the minister kept saying no. Despite an SNP member of the committee asking to see the target operating model, which would have given us a clue about the direction of travel, the minister still said no.

The Parliament’s history has too many examples of pieces of legislation that lie on the statute books and are simply incapable of being enacted because they are such a mess. The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 has not yet been enacted. Legislation has, sadly, been challenged in the courts because there was insufficient scrutiny of evidence.

Frankly, the national care service is too important to get wrong. The Government has already indicated that it will not be up and running until 2028-29, so there is time to take an extra few weeks to scrutinise the Government’s amendments, which will fundamentally change the governance arrangements. That should be properly considered at stage 1.

There is precedent. I will cite a recent example. The Rural Affairs and Islands Committee successfully argued that it should see amendments during stage 1 of the Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill. It got sight of amendments before stage 1 was completed.

Many members have noted in the past that stage 2 is, in any event, too short a process. Amendments are dealt with and dispatched at pace. If the changes have not been considered by the committee at stage 1, that makes for poor scrutiny and, ultimately, bad legislation.

The second issue is the lack of an expert bill advisory group. Every bill that I have ever worked on in the past has had an expert advisory group, because such groups help the Government to shape bills and ensure that they are capable of implementation.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12317, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: referral back to the ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I come to the chamber more in sorrow than in anger to move a motion to ask the Parliament to send the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill back to the Healt...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am entirely in agreement with what Jackie Baillie is saying.
The Minister for Local Government Empowerment and Planning (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
That is a surprise.
Liz Smith Con
Actually, it is not a surprise, because I think that we both have exactly the same views about the importance of scrutiny in the Parliament. Does Jackie Bai...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I absolutely do. The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee made the point that it is not good legislative practice to stick substantive decisions on spen...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a practising general practitioner in the national health service. I am also a member ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
There has been much talk from the Opposition about a framework bill. I remind members that the national health service was established in the United Kingdom ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart—
Kevin Stewart SNP
—to create an institution that works for all—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart, do you have some kind of question for the member?
Kevin Stewart SNP
It is a pity that Dr Gulhane and others do not have the radical edge that Nye Bevan and others did—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Stewart! Dr Gulhane, please continue.
Sandesh Gulhane Con
Well, there was no question. If Mr Stewart wanted to speak, he should have put his name forward to do a speech. I ask members across the chamber to vote not...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
The National Care Service (Scotland) Bill is our opportunity to reform the social care system in Scotland. I welcome the Parliament’s consideration of such a...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maree Todd SNP
I have five minutes. I will not be taking interventions. People across the country deserve better, and that is what the bill will bring. Most important, it ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Clare Haughey to speak on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. 15:37
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
The Health, Social Care and Sport Committee has undertaken extensive scrutiny of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill since its introduction in June 202...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I rise to support the motion in the name of Jackie Baillie. Presiding Officer, there is an element of ministerial cosplay at work here. If you listen to the...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
The minister said that focus on the parliamentary process was not needed, but this is not obtuse process—this is scrutiny. It is clear that this secretive Sc...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The establishment of a national care service gives the Parliament the chance to be bold, ambitious and innovative. I am clear that it is not Scottish Labour ...