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Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee 21 February 2024

21 Feb 2024 · S6 · Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Item of business
Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Fairlie, Jim SNP Perthshire South and Kinross-shire Watch on SPTV
It is quite strange to be sitting at this end of the table, having spent the past three years in the seat that Emma Harper is now sitting in. It feels a little odd for me—I do not know how odd it feels for you—but we will crack on. I will speak to Edward Mountain’s amendments 180, 13, 14 and 16. The Werritty review recommended that trap operators must be required by law to complete training on the relevant category of trap. Training requirements are common in other professions, especially those relating to animal welfare. I know that the Scottish Gamekeepers Association and similar organisations already undertake a lot of training, and I welcome that. I was pleased to hear that Alex Hogg has indicated that the SGA is happy with the training requirements outlined in the bill. I assure him and the association that we would want its expertise and knowledge to inform the development of training alongside other stakeholders. However, Edward Mountain’s amendments would create an unnecessary barrier for trap users and training operators. Amendments 13, 14 and 15 would exclude much of the existing training that trap users already undertake as part of their wider professional development and, in some cases, it would result in applicants being required to undertake licence-specific training over and above that. For example, the amendments would not allow the relevant authority, which is likely to be NatureScot, to validate courses such as the higher national certificate or higher national diploma in gamekeeping if they were to incorporate training on the use of traps in their curriculum. In developing the framework for training courses, the Scottish Government and NatureScot will work with stakeholders to ensure that, if a fee is to be charged for training courses, the cost will be accessible and consideration will be given to providing for exemptions in certain circumstances. Amendments 16 and 180 simply add an extra level of bureaucracy to the training course creation and approval process. The licensing authority will be responsible for ensuring that any approved training courses cover the standards that are required by the bill and other pieces of legislation. Should it feel that it is necessary to do so, the licensing authority already has the power to consult with anyone it deems appropriate as part of the training course designation process. The amendments are therefore unnecessary and they would impose additional duties on practitioners and the licensing authority at a point when the training courses are required to be updated, and lead to delays in the approval process. That would not be helpful to either the licence applicants or the licensing authority, which would have to manage the additional administrative burden created by the amendments. I cannot support amendments 180, 13, 14, 15 and 16, and I encourage members to vote against them. On Colin Smyth’s amendments 120 and 121, the bill is not intended to introduce purposes for which some wildlife traps may be used but to ensure that wildlife traps that are used are operated in line with training and best practice. The traps covered by the provisions in the bill are largely used by professionals such as keepers and land managers rather than for domestic use. I therefore expect the training to be based around the existing conditions for the use of each type of trap, as set out in the Spring Traps Approval (Scotland) Order 2011, for example. That means that the training should be easily completed for anyone who is currently undertaking legal trapping. On that basis, I do not think that amendments 120 and 121 are necessary, as those aspects of trapping and best practice will be included in the required training course. If those amendments are moved, I would encourage the committee to vote against them. To answer the convener’s specific question, the spring traps specified in the licence scheme are those specified in the Spring Traps Approval (Scotland) Order 2011, as amended. That order lists the traps that are compliant with the AIHTS and traps that are used for the capture of live birds are not required to be compliant.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Our next item of business is consideration of the Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. I welcome Jim Fairlie, the Minister for Agricu...
The Convener Con
Amendment 180, in the name of Edward Mountain, is grouped with amendments 120, 13, 121, and 14 to 16.
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Before I speak to and move my amendment, and because there are new committee members, I would like to make a declaration of interests in line with those that...
The Convener Con
I invite Colin Smyth to speak to amendment 120 and the other amendments in the group.
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My amendment 120 proposes that NatureScot should consider independent animal welfare expertise when determining the content of the trap training courses. The...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my registered interest as a partner in a farming business and, through that, as a member of a number of organisations including ...
The Convener Con
Before I ask the minister to come in, I will make a contribution. Will the minister confirm whether the licences suggested in Colin Smyth’s amendment are com...
Jim Fairlie (Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity) SNP
It is quite strange to be sitting at this end of the table, having spent the past three years in the seat that Emma Harper is now sitting in. It feels a litt...
Edward Mountain Con
I am disappointed to hear what the minister has said, specifically in relation to amendments 180 and 16. He almost indicated that he was prepared to go on am...
Rachael Hamilton Con
I will go back to amendment 16, if you do not mind. Obviously, it is a very practical amendment. The Scottish Government often co-designs schemes with practi...
Edward Mountain Con
I agree with Rachael Hamilton. I think that the minister referred to Alex Hogg, who is the chairman of the SGA. He is a man with huge experience of these mat...
Jim Fairlie SNP
I am happy to discuss amendment 13 further with Edward Mountain.
Edward Mountain Con
Amendment 14.
Jim Fairlie SNP
I thought that you said amendment 13.
Edward Mountain Con
I am sorry, convener; I know that I should speak through the chair. I said that I understand that the number of days of courses, which amendment 13 deals wit...
Jim Fairlie SNP
I am happy to discuss amendment 14, and I apologise—that was my mistake. Amendment 16 requires NatureScot to consult persons who are likely to be interested...
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 180 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, R...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 180 disagreed to.
Colin Smyth Lab
It is disappointing that the minister will not support the pretty modest proposal in amendment 120, particularly given the suggestion that the training would...
Colin Smyth Lab
Some time ago, in response to my members’ business debate on the ethical principles of wildlife management, the Government said that it would consider such a...
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 121 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Against Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highland...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 8, Abstentions 0 Amendment 121 disagreed to. Amendments 14 and 15 not moved. Amendment 16 moved—Edward Mount...
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, R...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 16 disagreed to. Amendment 57 moved—Rachael Hamilton.
The Convener Con
The question is, that amendment 57 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener Con
There will be a division. For Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, R...
The Convener Con
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 57 disagreed to. Amendment 80 moved—Finlay Carson.