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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2024

20 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security

That is very disappointing. Kevin Stewart is quite correct to point to the fact that, when it comes to both of the main UK parties vying for number 10, there would be no change. That is exactly why this debate will include discussion not only of devolution but of the fact that we can get change only through independence.

I will move on to Westminster’s hostile approach to social security, which punishes the most marginalised people. The Scottish people deserve better. By using the powers that we have, the Scottish Government has developed a different approach to social security and is treating people with dignity, fairness and respect. Although the UK Government stands by its harmful policies, we have delivered 14 new benefits, seven of which are available only in Scotland. Our programme for government made it clear that we are committed to reducing child poverty: we estimate that this Government’s policies will keep 90,000 children out of relative and absolute poverty this year, with poverty levels being 9 percentage points lower than they would otherwise have been.

One key way in which we are using our powers to reduce child poverty is the introduction of the Scottish child payment. It is forecast that that benefit alone will lift 50,000 children out of relative poverty in 2023-24. It has been described by Professor Danny Dorling from the University of Oxford as having

“an effect on changing the inequality level in Scotland, which I don’t see in any country for which there has been data for the last 40 years.”

Not only have we been introducing new benefits for the people of Scotland, but we are mitigating the worst impacts of the UK Government’s welfare reforms. We are already spending around £130 million per year to directly mitigate some of the UK Government’s benefit cuts, including the bedroom tax and the benefit cap—policies that have been described by many people as being deeply damaging to the most vulnerable people in our society.

Over the past six years, we have invested £733 million to directly mitigate UK Government policies, which we would have to continue to do under a Labour Government. That money could be better spent, I suggest, on health, education, transport and further ambitious anti-poverty measures; for example, it could pay for up to 2,000 band 5 nurses each year. However, this Government continues to have to mitigate the worst excesses of Westminster.

With independence, the Scottish Government would deliver a new approach across the whole social security system, with a system that sees high-quality social security as a human right and a safety net for us all, whenever we need it; a system that is free from corrosive and harmful policies—such as the benefit cap and the two-child limit—that push families into further hardship; and a system that has no more punitive sanctions that are designed to punish those who already have the least.

Only with independence can we have full control over the necessary levers that would allow us to create an integrated system of support that would work for everyone. It is an approach that would lift people out of poverty and support those who can access paid work and support from the labour market, thereby underpinning a flourishing economy.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12203, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the paper “Building a New Scotland: Social security in ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Can we have the cabinet secretary’s mic on? Your card does not seem to be registering, cabinet secretary. Do you want to take it out and put it back in agai...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Third time lucky, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to open today’s debate to highlight the Scottish Government’s proposals for a fairer and more dignified so...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary accept an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from Paul O’Kane, who I am sure will tell us how UK Labour will stand up and ensure that we will have capital and revenue ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The cabinet secretary referred to the collective failure of past Tory and Labour Governments. She has heard me talk in the chamber about the callous approach...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I refer Paul O’Kane to my earlier quotation from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. I also point to the fact that the change that Labour claims to be bringing t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree that Labour’s “No change” attitude is immensely detrimental to the people of Scotland, especially when that party will not c...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
That is very disappointing. Kevin Stewart is quite correct to point to the fact that, when it comes to both of the main UK parties vying for number 10, there...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
In an independent Scotland, what will the waits be for adult disability payment? Will they be shorter than they currently are, or will they be even longer?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
As Mr Rennie well knows, we have made progress in cutting the processing times for child and adult disability payments. It is important to note that he also ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to give way to Jeremy Balfour if he would like to defend any of those policies, as he usually does.
Jeremy Balfour Con
In the fantasy world of politics that we are living in for the next couple of hours, how long would it take, once independence happens, for everything to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I struggled to hear Mr Balfour because of the chuntering from Stephen Kerr behind him, but I am happy to go with what I think I heard. The challenge around ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is a bit of time in hand, so members will certainly get time back for any interventions. I call Jeremy Balfour to speak to and move amendment S6M-1220...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
This must be a record, because I cannot think of a time—certainly not during my tenure in the Parliament—when so many nonsense debates have been brought forw...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I will in a moment. In the past couple of weeks, we have spent valuable chamber time debating Scotland’s plan on the European Union—an organisation that we ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I presume that Jeremy Balfour does not think that people in Scotland have not been impacted by the poverty that they have been pushed into by the Westminster...
Jeremy Balfour Con
The cabinet secretary misses the point. The people of Scotland voted to stay part of the union. Let us have debates about the type of social security that we...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. Some of the cabinet secretary’s colleagues must be feeling a bit embarrassed that the Government has run out of ideas to this extent.
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way now?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. I know for a fact that many SNP members are committed to making the lives of the Scottish people better in practical and tangible ways. For them, the pa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
Hang on. The truth is that things have got really bad for the SNP. It has been in government for 17 years with nothing positive to show for it. Now, its fac...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?