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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2024

20 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security

It is interesting that Ms Haughey has brought up the matter of pensions. We do not have any detail from the Scottish Government on pensions in an independent Scotland. She wants to have a debate about pensions right now, but the SNP does not have a paper on pensions, it does not know how it is going to pay for them, and it does not know about the currency. What a Labour Government will quite clearly do is fundamentally reform the social contract—as we did when we were last in government, to take a million pensioners out of poverty—to make things fairer and better. That is what Labour Governments do.

I am conscious that I have been generous with interventions and that time is getting on, so I will draw my contribution to a close.

The change that Scotland needs is not another self-indulgent fantasy paper to make SNP ministers and back benchers feel good—I am sure that it feels great to be in the Parliament, talking about that. The reality is that people need help right now. We have been clear throughout that a UK Labour Government will provide change in the form of the fundamental reform of the social contract that is required.

More than that, it is about supporting people into work as a route out of poverty; ensuring that people have good, high-quality jobs, a living wage and trade union rights; and ending zero-hours contracts and insecure work. That is the change that a Labour Government offers. We did not see anything in the paper about routes into work and about jobs, and we did not hear anything about them in the cabinet secretary’s contribution. All that we heard was more of the same.

The reality is that we need to see change, and we can have change faster with a Labour Government. That is what we need, not more debates about a fantasy independence prospectus that may never come to pass.

I move amendment S6M-12203.2, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert:

“acknowledges that the people of Scotland would be best served by a social security system that embeds dignity, fairness and respect and provides a safety net for all in a strong and growing economy; notes Scotland’s devolved social security benefits; acknowledges that delays in processing adult and child disability assessments have left disabled people stuck in limbo and out of pocket during the worst cost of living crisis in decades; notes that the Scottish Government’s decision to cut affordable housing budgets by 27 per cent in the face of a housing emergency has been labelled as baffling by organisations like the Joseph Rowntree Foundation; acknowledges that cutting vital funding for affordable housing and employability schemes harms the eradication of the causes of poverty; notes that between 2017 and 2021, 12 per cent of people have remained in persistent poverty after housing costs, and recognises that the paper, Building a New Scotland: Social security in an independent Scotland, is the latest in a series of theoretical future plans by the Scottish Government, which has already been too distracted to focus on the here and now and make the devolution of social security work for the people of Scotland.”

15:32  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12203, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the paper “Building a New Scotland: Social security in ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Can we have the cabinet secretary’s mic on? Your card does not seem to be registering, cabinet secretary. Do you want to take it out and put it back in agai...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Third time lucky, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to open today’s debate to highlight the Scottish Government’s proposals for a fairer and more dignified so...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary accept an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from Paul O’Kane, who I am sure will tell us how UK Labour will stand up and ensure that we will have capital and revenue ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The cabinet secretary referred to the collective failure of past Tory and Labour Governments. She has heard me talk in the chamber about the callous approach...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I refer Paul O’Kane to my earlier quotation from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. I also point to the fact that the change that Labour claims to be bringing t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree that Labour’s “No change” attitude is immensely detrimental to the people of Scotland, especially when that party will not c...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
That is very disappointing. Kevin Stewart is quite correct to point to the fact that, when it comes to both of the main UK parties vying for number 10, there...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
In an independent Scotland, what will the waits be for adult disability payment? Will they be shorter than they currently are, or will they be even longer?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
As Mr Rennie well knows, we have made progress in cutting the processing times for child and adult disability payments. It is important to note that he also ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to give way to Jeremy Balfour if he would like to defend any of those policies, as he usually does.
Jeremy Balfour Con
In the fantasy world of politics that we are living in for the next couple of hours, how long would it take, once independence happens, for everything to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I struggled to hear Mr Balfour because of the chuntering from Stephen Kerr behind him, but I am happy to go with what I think I heard. The challenge around ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is a bit of time in hand, so members will certainly get time back for any interventions. I call Jeremy Balfour to speak to and move amendment S6M-1220...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
This must be a record, because I cannot think of a time—certainly not during my tenure in the Parliament—when so many nonsense debates have been brought forw...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I will in a moment. In the past couple of weeks, we have spent valuable chamber time debating Scotland’s plan on the European Union—an organisation that we ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I presume that Jeremy Balfour does not think that people in Scotland have not been impacted by the poverty that they have been pushed into by the Westminster...
Jeremy Balfour Con
The cabinet secretary misses the point. The people of Scotland voted to stay part of the union. Let us have debates about the type of social security that we...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. Some of the cabinet secretary’s colleagues must be feeling a bit embarrassed that the Government has run out of ideas to this extent.
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way now?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. I know for a fact that many SNP members are committed to making the lives of the Scottish people better in practical and tangible ways. For them, the pa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
Hang on. The truth is that things have got really bad for the SNP. It has been in government for 17 years with nothing positive to show for it. Now, its fac...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?