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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 February 2024

20 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security

So, the Scottish Government will simply raise taxes or raise money from another budget next year.

As with previous debates of this type, this is not a serious subject matter. Even if we indulge the nationalists, simple facts get in the way of their delusions. The biggest insult in the paper is the single page on the transfer of social security following a referendum result. That transfer would be an incredibly complex and time-consuming process, which would have a direct impact on the day-to-day lives of the most vulnerable people. The cabinet secretary would not give a timescale for it. The lack of thought behind the process shows exactly why the SNP should not be trusted. There is no timeline for the handover, no detail of how the data would be transferred securely and no detail of how resources would be split if the DWP were to leave Scotland.

The reason that ministers are so light on detail in that regard is that the answer shames them. We can see a microcosm of the process in how the Government has handled the transfer of a small number of devolved benefits and in the setting up of Social Security Scotland. That has been years overdue, there have been constant issues with implementation and the Scottish Government has even had to hand benefits back to the DWP because it could not handle them. Can we imagine an independent Scotland handing power back to a foreign Government, saying, “Please could you do it for a few more years, because we are not capable of doing it?” It is a fantasy. Rest assured that there will be no handing anything back or asking anyone to help unless the UK Government is willing to step up and protect the Scottish Government.

The debate shows us two things. First, the SNP has totally run out of ideas and is desperate to deflect attention from its woeful record after 17 years in government. Secondly, its plans for independence are flimsy and ill thought through—and, ultimately, they will be have a negative effect on the people of Scotland. We could do it all better if the Scottish Government simply got on with the day job and accepted our amendment, which makes it clear that the Parliament wants Social Security Scotland to work but within the confines of the United Kingdom.

I move amendment S6M-12203.1, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert:

“regrets that the Scottish Government continues to miss its targets for delivering the transfer of benefits to Social Security Scotland, and calls on the Scottish Government to focus on the real priorities of the people of Scotland rather than obsessing over the constitution.”

15:23  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12203, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the paper “Building a New Scotland: Social security in ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Can we have the cabinet secretary’s mic on? Your card does not seem to be registering, cabinet secretary. Do you want to take it out and put it back in agai...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Third time lucky, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to open today’s debate to highlight the Scottish Government’s proposals for a fairer and more dignified so...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary accept an intervention?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from Paul O’Kane, who I am sure will tell us how UK Labour will stand up and ensure that we will have capital and revenue ...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The cabinet secretary referred to the collective failure of past Tory and Labour Governments. She has heard me talk in the chamber about the callous approach...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I refer Paul O’Kane to my earlier quotation from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. I also point to the fact that the change that Labour claims to be bringing t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree that Labour’s “No change” attitude is immensely detrimental to the people of Scotland, especially when that party will not c...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
That is very disappointing. Kevin Stewart is quite correct to point to the fact that, when it comes to both of the main UK parties vying for number 10, there...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
In an independent Scotland, what will the waits be for adult disability payment? Will they be shorter than they currently are, or will they be even longer?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
As Mr Rennie well knows, we have made progress in cutting the processing times for child and adult disability payments. It is important to note that he also ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I am happy to give way to Jeremy Balfour if he would like to defend any of those policies, as he usually does.
Jeremy Balfour Con
In the fantasy world of politics that we are living in for the next couple of hours, how long would it take, once independence happens, for everything to be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I struggled to hear Mr Balfour because of the chuntering from Stephen Kerr behind him, but I am happy to go with what I think I heard. The challenge around ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
There is a bit of time in hand, so members will certainly get time back for any interventions. I call Jeremy Balfour to speak to and move amendment S6M-1220...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
This must be a record, because I cannot think of a time—certainly not during my tenure in the Parliament—when so many nonsense debates have been brought forw...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I will in a moment. In the past couple of weeks, we have spent valuable chamber time debating Scotland’s plan on the European Union—an organisation that we ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I presume that Jeremy Balfour does not think that people in Scotland have not been impacted by the poverty that they have been pushed into by the Westminster...
Jeremy Balfour Con
The cabinet secretary misses the point. The people of Scotland voted to stay part of the union. Let us have debates about the type of social security that we...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Jeremy Balfour give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. Some of the cabinet secretary’s colleagues must be feeling a bit embarrassed that the Government has run out of ideas to this extent.
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way now?
Jeremy Balfour Con
No. I know for a fact that many SNP members are committed to making the lives of the Scottish people better in practical and tangible ways. For them, the pa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
Hang on. The truth is that things have got really bad for the SNP. It has been in government for 17 years with nothing positive to show for it. Now, its fac...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?