Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 08 February 2024
08 Feb 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Review of the EU-UK Trade and Co-operation Agreement
Alastair Sim (Universities Scotland)
Watch on SPTV
I will respond to Kate Forbes’s question about the combination of the pressure of civil society and politics, which is interesting. In that context, I will reflect briefly on horizon and Erasmus. What was extremely powerful in eventually getting us over the line with full horizon association was that a conjunction of voices from Scotland, the wider UK and the EU were all saying to the UK Government and to the European authorities, “Please, please, please can we get this association agreement over the line?” We had strong support from the European University Association, the League of European Research Universities and so on. The collective voice from both sides—from civil society in the UK and from academic leadership in Europe—was powerful. Eventually, that made association possible, subject to agreement on the cost of associating. We were lucky that the then minister for science in the UK Government was a huge enthusiast for horizon programme association and worked hard to get that over the line. Such an approach does not always work. There have been strong voices from Scotland, the wider UK and European civil society partners that it would be a great thing to keep the UK fully in Erasmus+. That would help to build the living bridge between Europe and the UK of people who have been abroad and understood each other’s cultures and circumstances. It is really disappointing not to get that, but I think that the decision has probably been driven by price. When the UK Government looked at what it would cost to be in Erasmus+, it stepped back. We hope that, as we renew our relationship with the EU, associating to Erasmus+ or whatever its successor is will be a high priority. In the university sector, the programme was great for student mobility, staff mobility and collaboration, but we recognise its wider value to civil society, which we would like to be replicated. The question is interesting. There is a mixture of civil society peer pressure from both sides—the UK and Europe—with politics and money.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener (Donald Cameron)
Con
Good morning and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. We have received apologies from ou...
Irene Oldfather (Scottish Advisory Forum on Europe)
Thank you so much, deputy convener, for inviting us here today. It is a pleasure to be working with the committee on your inquiry, and it is always a pleasur...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Thank you—that was very helpful. On that last point, we are very cognisant of the fact that elections are coming in the EU and the UK. Further, there have be...
Tom Sallis (Scotch Whisky Association)
Thank you very much for having me this morning. If you look at our export stats to the EU, it is a relatively positive story. For 2022, our EU exports were u...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Does anyone else want to speak about their sector’s experience of the TCA to date?
Dr Adam Marks (Law Society of Scotland)
I can provide a decent contrast to the situation with goods. From our perspective, the TCA is a good, focused agreement, and it has some useful parts for ser...
Robert Smith (Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry)
Good morning, everybody. By way of background, I note that the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry represents innovative pharmaceutical compan...
Lloyd Austin (Scottish Environment LINK)
Obviously, Scottish Environment LINK is most concerned about environmental issues and environmental regulations that lead to action on climate change, the bi...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
SNP
This might be a really stupid question—I am new to this subject today—but what have been the implications of missing the deadline relating to the electricity...
Lloyd Austin
It is up to the two parties—the EU and the UK—whether they go to arbitration or anything like that. I think that such issues get referred to the joint commit...
Jim Fairlie
SNP
Thank you.
Agnes Tolmie (Scottish Women’s Convention)
The Scottish Women’s Convention has consulted women across Scotland, and some issues were raised in relation to trade in goods and services. For example, sup...
Irene Oldfather
I will make a couple of very brief comments. The first is about the unintended consequences—perhaps they are not; I am not sure—relating to the interoperabil...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
This may be a bit of a political question. SAFE has identified a number of areas where it would like progress, such as programmes to join or new provisions a...
Irene Oldfather
That is a very good question. Sitting where I am, I feel that civil society is leading the debate in a lot of the areas, to be honest. I have said that for s...
Kate Forbes
SNP
That is heartening, because it means that there is the potential for change, so your participation really matters. I do not know whether anyone else wants to...
The Deputy Convener
Con
As we have mentioned Erasmus+ and horizon, I call Alastair Sim, who has not yet spoken.
Alastair Sim (Universities Scotland)
I will respond to Kate Forbes’s question about the combination of the pressure of civil society and politics, which is interesting. In that context, I will r...
Rachel Le Noan (Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations)
At the summit that we had in November, there was strong recognition from EU representatives that the relationship had improved, so now was the time to open n...
Robert Smith
It is worth recognising that participation in horizon was a commitment by both sides in the TCA. Once the deal was signed, we saw a lag between the commitmen...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
It has been quite heartening but also surprising to hear that people are fairly sanguine and are working through solutions. That is good to know but, because...
Irene Oldfather
I absolutely agree. There is interesting research on the issue from the British Chambers of Commerce. I know that the committee will hear from the Scottish C...
Tom Sallis
I agree. We have 93 member companies, which include a lot of small distillers. It is fair to say that, when challenges come up around border processes or req...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thank you very much for your frankness and honesty so far this morning. You have all talked about the frustrations that your sectors, your industries or your...
The Deputy Convener
Con
Does anyone want to take that question?
Robert Smith
I am happy to start. There are opportunities that our industry has identified, and we obviously recognise that the terms of the TCA, while providing a found...
Dr Marks
If I were to give you one big broad message with regard to what we need, I would say that the overall thing that I try to remember is that trade deals do not...
Lloyd Austin
My answer to the member’s question is that I would quite like an answer to the question that Jim Fairlie asked me earlier—that is, what does civil society do...
Alastair Sim
In response to Alexander Stewart’s question about opportunities for deepening this relationship as we go forward, I would say that not all of them are specif...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is very regrettable that we are no longer part of the Erasmus+ programme. Alistair Sim and others have talked about its benefits this morning, and the poi...