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Committee

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee 07 February 2024

07 Feb 2024 · S6 · Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Item of business
Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 106 relates to the wording of the offence of using a glue trap in section 1 of the bill. A glue trap, as we know, is intended as a restraining trap. As members know, rats and mice and sometimes other non-targeted species walk across the boards and get stuck to the strong glue. They often remain there until the person who set the trap comes to kill them. They suffer terribly during that time, which is why the ban on the use of glue traps is necessary and something that I welcome. Amendment 106 seeks to strengthen the ban, as “taking” and “restraining” can have different meanings and the intention is to ban all use of glue traps. The aim of the amendment is to clarify the definition of the offence and probe a potential loophole. As it stands, the bill says that it is an offence “to use a glue trap for the purpose of killing or taking” whereas the Welsh legislation prohibits “the use of a glue trap for the purpose of killing or taking an animal, and use of a glue trap in any other way that is likely to catch an animal”, which seems more comprehensive than the proposed Scottish bill definition. The UK Parliament’s Glue Traps (Offences) Act 2022 also uses the terms “catching” and “caught” in its description of the offence. I hope that the minister’s response is clear on the Government’s legal definition of “taking” and that it also outlines why the Scottish Government has chosen wording that is different from that used in the Welsh and UK acts. Amendment 107 would make it an offence to knowingly cause or permit another person to use a glue trap. On the main offence of using a glue trap, the explanatory notes accompanying the bill state: “The offences do not apply if the person has a reasonable excuse for using or setting a glue trap. For example, it is not the intention to criminalise circumstances where a person is compelled to use a glue trap by a workplace superior.” That raises the question of who would be responsible in that scenario, and it creates a potential loophole that amendment 107 seeks to close. In other words, could someone get around the ban by compelling someone else to use the trap? Causing or permitting offences are used in a wide variety of legislation to prevent individuals escaping sanctions when they have made or allowed another person to commit an offence. In fact, there is an example of such a provision in section 9 of the bill, which makes it an offence to cause or permit another person to make muirburn without a licence. It is unclear why such a provision is not included in the section on glue traps. Amendment 108 is consequential to amendment 107.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Finlay Carson) Con
Good morning, and welcome to the fourth meeting in 2024 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. I remind all those members who are using electronic devic...
The Convener Con
Amendment 176, in the name of Edward Mountain, is grouped with amendments 106, 4, 107, 108 and 5 to 7.
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to be here to speak to my amendments. Before I do so, I will make a full declaration of my interests, so that people are aware of them. I have a...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Amendment 106 relates to the wording of the offence of using a glue trap in section 1 of the bill. A glue trap, as we know, is intended as a restraining trap...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I put on the record my sympathy for the intention behind Colin Smyth’s amendments 107 and 108. Glue traps are inhumane and indiscriminate as a pest control t...
The Minister for Energy and the Environment (Gillian Martin) SNP
Edward Mountain’s amendment 176 would allow members of the public to use glue traps to control rats and mice in educational, catering or medical premises. Th...
The Convener Con
I call Edward Mountain to wind up and indicate whether he wishes to press or withdraw amendment 176.
Edward Mountain Con
In some ways, I am actually encouraged by what I have heard this morning, but I would still like to make a few comments in response to what the minister has ...
The Convener Con
Would you like to comment, minister?
Gillian Martin SNP
I think that I have made it clear that I am sympathetic to the argument that there might be some settings where we cannot have an infestation and where pest ...
Edward Mountain Con
On that basis, with the hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel, I am prepared to work with the minister to see if my amendments can be reviewed to...
Colin Smyth Lab
I am grateful to the minister for her clarity on the definition of “taking” and for the offer to include further information in the explanatory notes. On tha...
Edward Mountain Con
I will not move amendment 4 on the basis of my earlier explanation. Amendment 4 not moved.
Colin Smyth Lab
I am grateful to the minister for the offer to work on a possible amendment at stage 3 on the issue covered by amendment 107. On that basis, I will not move ...
Edward Mountain Con
I will not move amendment 5 for the reasons that I gave earlier. Amendment 5 not moved. Section 2 agreed to. After section 2
Edward Mountain Con
I am looking forward to fruitful discussions with the minister. Therefore, I am not moving amendments 6 or 7. Amendments 6 and 7 not moved. Section 3 agree...
The Convener Con
Amendment 54, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 54A, 54B, 54C, 54D, 54E, 54F, 54G, 54H, 54I and 54J.
Gillian Martin SNP
My amendment 54 seeks to introduce a comprehensive ban on the use of snares, as is recommended by the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission. The amendment intro...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Gillian Martin SNP
Can I finish my points?
Rachael Hamilton Con
Yes—sorry. I thought that you had not heard me.
Gillian Martin SNP
You never know; perhaps I will cover what it is you want to raise, so let me get to the end of my rationale for this.
Rachael Hamilton Con
My intervention was about a previous issue.
Gillian Martin SNP
In my view, although humane cable restraints might be an incremental improvement on the traditional style of snare, they do not lead to a significant reducti...
Rachael Hamilton Con
It is on a previous point, minister. Thank you for taking the intervention. You talked about the ban on snares in Wales, but the fact is that Welsh minister...
Gillian Martin SNP
Ms Hamilton mentioned a challenge, but there is always the risk of a challenge to any legislation that goes through a Parliament. People are free to challeng...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Can I get clarification specifically on that?
Gillian Martin SNP
Convener, I would like to go on and discuss the amendments in Colin Smyth’s name, because I think that I have answered Rachael Hamilton’s points.
The Convener Con
Yes. Rachael, you will have an opportunity to come in when I call for general views from members.
Rachael Hamilton Con
Thank you, convener.