Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 07 February 2024
07 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security (Investment)
I am always happy to try to help Mr Swinney. We have higher and higher costs of administration of the same benefits. We are spending more money on doing the admin compared with what happens in the DWP.
Most recently, the Scottish Government has pushed back its estimate of how long it will take to fully move everyone over from PIP and the disability living allowance to ADP. It was originally claimed that that would all be done by this summer, but the Government now estimates that it will be done by the end of 2025. The incredible thing is that I suspect that the Government will struggle to meet even the extended deadline. Up to this point, Social Security Scotland—[Interruption.]
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12079, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on delivering record social security investment in Scotlan...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)
SNP
We have transformed social security provision in Scotland. We have established a radically different system that is based on dignity, fairness and respect. T...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
When the minister was at Ibrox primary school this morning, did she discuss the very low take-up of the early learning and childcare provision for two-year-o...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
We have indeed spoken about that in the past in the chamber. I recognise Willie Rennie’s continued interest in the area. As he and I have discussed in the pa...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I know about the cabinet secretary’s points from my committee work and agree with many of them, but what work has the Scottish Government undertaken to look ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
As Miles Briggs should know, one of the reasons why the number of complaints has gone up is that the number of cases has gone up exponentially because we too...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
What would the cabinet secretary say to the 50,000 people who are waiting more than three months for disability benefits, some of whom are being forced to go...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
One of the very different aspects of the system that I have just discussed is the fact that Social Security Scotland will gather the supporting information. ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I remind members that I receive the personal independence payment. I am pleased to take part in the debate. It is always encouraging when we come to the cha...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Does the member recognise that we are spending more money than Westminster because our values are different? That spend includes investment of nearly £500 mi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I will give you the time back, Mr Balfour.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I say with respect that I think that the cabinet secretary has got the wrong end of the stick. I am simply asking, if the Scottish Government is going to nee...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I will in a second. One would think that, if the agency was spending that much on operations, it would be running a bit more smoothly, or at least the hando...
John Swinney
SNP
I am grateful to Mr Balfour for giving way, because he is advancing an entirely contradictory argument. On the one hand, he is telling Parliament that the Sc...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I am always happy to try to help Mr Swinney. We have higher and higher costs of administration of the same benefits. We are spending more money on doing the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Cabinet secretary, we need to hear the member who has the floor, which is Jeremy Balfour. Please continue, Mr Balfour.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I am grateful. Up to this point, Social Security Scotland has moved across fewer than 5,000 people per month on average. To meet the new target, the Governme...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I will finish this point. I would appreciate it if the cabinet secretary, now or in closing, explained why it will take so long for the report’s findings to ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
The independent review will decide its own timelines, but I suggest that, if Mr Balfour wants any changes to eligibility, it would be useful if the Scottish ...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I ask the cabinet secretary to reflect in closing that the August 2025 date came from her press release. That is the date that the Government has set. I am ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Paul O’Kane joins us remotely to speak to and move amendment S6M-12079.1. 15:19
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
This is at least the third debate that we have had on social security in the past 12 months. As always, I will begin with a note of consensus. As in previous...
Kate Forbes
SNP
I wonder whether Paul O’Kane could identify specific welfare policies that Labour would reverse that the Tories have introduced.
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I believe that Ms Forbes has participated in a number of social security debates in which we have had this interaction before. I am very clear that Labour wa...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
John Swinney will recall how we got here. It was as a result of the Smith commission. I know that John Swinney was not wholly satisfied with the process, but...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
Will Willie Rennie give way?
Willie Rennie
LD
Not just now. Although it is right to reflect on the decline of child poverty levels, we have not dealt with the root causes of why we have such high levels ...