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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 February 2024

06 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Beattie, Colin SNP Midlothian North and Musselburgh Watch on SPTV

I recognise the sensitivity of the public register, and there will be further debate and discussion on that.

Other concerns exist that the mental health moratorium might put additional pressures on an already stretched money advice sector. Although it is not anticipated that an enormous volume of debtors will avail themselves of the facility, there will be a need for practitioners across the entire debt advice sector to receive appropriate training and education to ensure that the best possible advice is given, and there may well be a cost attached to that.

To add to the complexity of the area, many individuals who are subject to a compulsory treatment order have appointed an individual as their attorney to handle their affairs when necessary. Is it, then, necessary to restrict that service to those who have mental capacity to consent and those who have legally recognised representatives? What happens to people in debt who do not have that capacity?

I will briefly run through one or two other points that arise from the bill.

The minimum asset process is a way to bankruptcy for individual debtors with a low income and few assets. Currently, one can apply for such a bankruptcy only every 10 years. The suggestion is that the period be reduced to five years, but there are mixed views on that. Some stakeholders support it and some reject it. Far more work needs to be done to ensure that the appropriate period is fixed.

I see that I am running out of time, Presiding Officer, so I will run ahead.

I look forward to seeing further information on the detail of the bill in the further stages as it goes forward. In the meantime, the bill’s intentions are beneficial to creditors who suffer from serious mental health problems, and they offer a fair option in difficult circumstances for creditors and debtors.

I support the general principles of the bill.

15:20  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12070, in the name of Tom Arthur, on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I ask membe...
The Minister for Community Wealth and Public Finance (Tom Arthur) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to address the chamber on the general principles of the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill. The bill is not a big one...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Does Tom Arthur not recognise that the very fact that the bill is an enabling bill, rather than one that sets out criteria, mechanisms and thresholds, makes ...
Tom Arthur SNP
The member makes a fair point, which I will turn to as I progress through my prepared remarks. I commend the members of the mental health moratorium working...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The problem with the working group’s recommendations is that, if the Government eventually adopted them as its proposals, they would give people who are suff...
Tom Arthur SNP
I will come on to further detail of what we will take forward in the regulations. The detail of how the proposals will work in practice will be set out in ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you. Members may wish to know that we have time in hand this afternoon, and that we hope to give back time for any interventions taken. 14:38
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Economy and Fair Work Committee in the role of convener in this stage 1 debate on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotla...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland, albeit not currently practising. I echo th...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does Murdo Fraser agree that it would be beneficial for the overall culture of enterprise in this country if we had a less stigmatising approach to bankruptc...
Murdo Fraser Con
I totally agree with that interesting intervention. In the United States, successful entrepreneurs often fail in business for a number of times before they a...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does Murdo Fraser agree that there is an interesting contrast between public agencies and private businesses in the approaches that are being taken? The bank...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Johnson makes a very fair point. In the evidence that was given to the committee, some of the strongest-worded evidence against some of the additional pro...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
Murdo Fraser sets out the challenge very clearly. Is there not a concomitant risk that many debtors who are aware of the fact that mental health may provide ...
Murdo Fraser Con
Fergus Ewing, with his usual lawyerly background, makes a fair point about the potential for unintended consequences. I was pleased to note that, in his let...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Yes, please go ahead, Mr Fraser.
Murdo Fraser Con
The question of the discharge of trustees was alluded to by the committee’s convener. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland told us in evidence ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
All too often, poor mental health and debt go hand in hand and lead to absolutely disastrous social consequences, both for the people who are immediately aff...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will take the intervention in a second. The Royal Edinburgh hospital is in my constituency—I am contacted by people there, but very often, it is quite far...
Stephen Kerr Con
Does Daniel Johnson agree, however, that at the end of this legislative process, people in Scotland who are in the distressing circumstances that we are outl...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Mr Kerr makes a valid point. In approaching this legislation, we need to ensure that we do the most that we can. If there are examples from elsewhere, in par...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the member recognise that if we were to expand those criteria, with which I think most of us would agree, the issue of resource would have to be addressed?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I was coming to that very point. Although I think that a threshold that includes all those who are undergoing mental health treatment would be far too low, a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind all members who seek to speak in the debate to ensure that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. We move to the open debate. 15:13
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, particularly as I am a member of the ...
Stephen Kerr Con
Does the member share the concerns that I and other people have expressed about the Government’s stated intention to create a public register of those who wo...
Colin Beattie SNP
I recognise the sensitivity of the public register, and there will be further debate and discussion on that. Other concerns exist that the mental health mo...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a pleasure to follow Colin Beattie, who gave a considered and thoughtful speech that highlighted many issues of concern about the bill that I wish to r...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?