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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 06 February 2024

06 Feb 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Beattie, Colin SNP Midlothian North and Musselburgh Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, particularly as I am a member of the Economy and Fair Work Committee, which recently considered it.

The bill’s objectives seem quite simple. Many of the proposed changes are of a technical or minor nature and appear to require little debate. However, the area that has been the focus of most attention is the provisions intended to improve the lives of people who are struggling with problem debt and who have serious mental health issues. I will focus my remarks on that area.

In principle, the proposal to provide a moratorium to give breathing space to people who have serious mental problems would give them a chance to recover and to handle their situation better when they are able to do so. However, a number of issues need to be considered to ensure fairness and justice. As we now know, people with mental health problems are three and a half times more likely to be in debt, and half of people who are in problem debt are experiencing a mental health problem. The cost of living crisis has exacerbated the link between money issues and mental health problems.

Although the bill is focused on the more extreme end of the scale, research from the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute shows that one in six adults in the UK has experienced suicidal thoughts due to the cost of living crisis. That makes it very clear why the proposed bill is necessary.

The current legal framework for statutory debt solutions allows people in debt, including those with mental health issues, to apply for a six-month moratorium against diligence, giving someone with debt problems time to consider the best solution to their financial situation. During that time, the debtors are expected to continue making payments towards any debts due while the moratorium is in place, but the moratorium prevents creditors from taking particular forms of recovery actions for a set period of time.

Section 1 of the bill would give ministers the power to make regulations to introduce a mental health moratorium. There is little included that indicates how the moratorium would work, and, although leaving the detail to the regulations will allow flexibility to adapt legislation to changes, it means that the specifics of how the moratorium will work are not set out. Compulsory eligibility is a key factor. It seems likely that those who are subject to a compulsory treatment order under the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 and those receiving treatment under the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 would be eligible. After that, it becomes less clear—and understandably so. Mental health is a complex business, and there must be a clear line in the bill as to who is eligible without grey areas or ambiguity.

In England, the debt respite scheme breathing space criteria are wider than the proposals put forward by the Scottish Government: breathing space is open to anyone who is receiving mental health crisis treatment. Perhaps the Scottish Government will consider using similar criteria going forward. That would cover people receiving crisis treatment, which would include those receiving compulsory treatment as well as those who are receiving crisis, emergency or acute treatment without compulsion.

There is also the question of who would sign off on such a mental health moratorium. The Scottish Government’s consultation proposes that eligibility to sign off would be certified by a mental health officer, a reporting medical officer, a community psychiatric nurse or a similarly qualified professional, which seems reasonable.

There has been some debate on the length of the moratorium. The Government’s proposal that the initial stage of the moratorium should last as long as the person is receiving treatment, followed by a six-month period to allow the person to deal with their debt problems, is reasonable. My only question is, what happens if the person has a long-term condition or, indeed, a permanent condition? What is the backstop to deal with that?

Details of how the freeze will work remain to be seen. How will diligence be stopped? I assume that interest will be frozen and that creditor contact will be ceased. I look forward to receiving more information on that as the bill progresses.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12070, in the name of Tom Arthur, on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I ask membe...
The Minister for Community Wealth and Public Finance (Tom Arthur) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to address the chamber on the general principles of the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill. The bill is not a big one...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Does Tom Arthur not recognise that the very fact that the bill is an enabling bill, rather than one that sets out criteria, mechanisms and thresholds, makes ...
Tom Arthur SNP
The member makes a fair point, which I will turn to as I progress through my prepared remarks. I commend the members of the mental health moratorium working...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The problem with the working group’s recommendations is that, if the Government eventually adopted them as its proposals, they would give people who are suff...
Tom Arthur SNP
I will come on to further detail of what we will take forward in the regulations. The detail of how the proposals will work in practice will be set out in ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you. Members may wish to know that we have time in hand this afternoon, and that we hope to give back time for any interventions taken. 14:38
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Economy and Fair Work Committee in the role of convener in this stage 1 debate on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotla...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland, albeit not currently practising. I echo th...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Does Murdo Fraser agree that it would be beneficial for the overall culture of enterprise in this country if we had a less stigmatising approach to bankruptc...
Murdo Fraser Con
I totally agree with that interesting intervention. In the United States, successful entrepreneurs often fail in business for a number of times before they a...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does Murdo Fraser agree that there is an interesting contrast between public agencies and private businesses in the approaches that are being taken? The bank...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Johnson makes a very fair point. In the evidence that was given to the committee, some of the strongest-worded evidence against some of the additional pro...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
Murdo Fraser sets out the challenge very clearly. Is there not a concomitant risk that many debtors who are aware of the fact that mental health may provide ...
Murdo Fraser Con
Fergus Ewing, with his usual lawyerly background, makes a fair point about the potential for unintended consequences. I was pleased to note that, in his let...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Yes, please go ahead, Mr Fraser.
Murdo Fraser Con
The question of the discharge of trustees was alluded to by the committee’s convener. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland told us in evidence ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
All too often, poor mental health and debt go hand in hand and lead to absolutely disastrous social consequences, both for the people who are immediately aff...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will take the intervention in a second. The Royal Edinburgh hospital is in my constituency—I am contacted by people there, but very often, it is quite far...
Stephen Kerr Con
Does Daniel Johnson agree, however, that at the end of this legislative process, people in Scotland who are in the distressing circumstances that we are outl...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Mr Kerr makes a valid point. In approaching this legislation, we need to ensure that we do the most that we can. If there are examples from elsewhere, in par...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the member recognise that if we were to expand those criteria, with which I think most of us would agree, the issue of resource would have to be addressed?
Daniel Johnson Lab
I was coming to that very point. Although I think that a threshold that includes all those who are undergoing mental health treatment would be far too low, a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind all members who seek to speak in the debate to ensure that they have pressed their request-to-speak buttons. We move to the open debate. 15:13
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, particularly as I am a member of the ...
Stephen Kerr Con
Does the member share the concerns that I and other people have expressed about the Government’s stated intention to create a public register of those who wo...
Colin Beattie SNP
I recognise the sensitivity of the public register, and there will be further debate and discussion on that. Other concerns exist that the mental health mo...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
It is a pleasure to follow Colin Beattie, who gave a considered and thoughtful speech that highlighted many issues of concern about the bill that I wish to r...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?