Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 31 January 2024
31 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
UK Covid-19 Inquiry
No, they did not. In this inquiry, we have seen that the top spin doctor to the former First Minister was looking to start a fight with the UK Government. Remember, she wanted to ask for things that she knew would be refused. They admitted to wanting to
“think about something other than sick people”.
That is what Nicola Sturgeon and her chief of staff were discussing.
We now know that, in June 2020, just a few months into the pandemic, the SNP Government was discussing how the public health crisis could be used to boost independence. Children could not go to school, restaurants remained shut and friends and family were just beginning to be able to meet up again. I will give way to any SNP member who wants to defend, months into the pandemic, SNP Government ministers looking to use the pandemic to boost independence. [Interruption.] No one is standing up, but some of the SNP members are actually laughing. John Mason is still laughing. He thinks that it is funny.
I will give way to Ruth Maguire in a moment. When I give way to Ms Maguire, John Mason might want to take the smirk off his face during this important debate.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12010, in the name of Douglas Ross, on United Kingdom Covid-19 inquiry revelations. I invite members who ...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The Covid-19 pandemic affected people across the globe, and every single person in Scotland. The public were forced to spend months effectively restricted in...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
The member talks about people being serious. Does he think that Boris Johnson was serious enough about the pandemic?
Douglas Ross
Con
We had a question in the office about how long it would take the SNP to mention Boris Johnson—I had gone for earlier than four minutes, in fairness. Let us ...
Douglas Ross
Con
Mr Mason will defend the SNP Government for using the pandemic for purely political purposes.
John Mason
SNP
I ask again whether the UK Government and Michael Gove did not do exactly the same.
Douglas Ross
Con
No, they did not. In this inquiry, we have seen that the top spin doctor to the former First Minister was looking to start a fight with the UK Government. Re...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
I will not be the only person in the chamber who lost someone during the pandemic and who will be finding this display quite despicable. We are serious polit...
Douglas Ross
Con
This is the actual debate. I respect Ruth Maguire. She stood up and could not defend her own Government wanting to use a pandemic to boost independence. I am...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Shona Robison to speak to and move amendment S6M-12010.5. 15:12
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance (Shona Robison)
SNP
The Covid-19 pandemic touched every life in Scotland. Throughout it, the Scottish Government’s absolute priority was always to keep the people of this countr...
Douglas Ross
Con
Does the Deputy First Minister accept that, although everyone wants the inquiries to come up with conclusions that can be used in the future, their work is b...
Shona Robison
SNP
I do not believe that the work of the inquiries is being hampered. I believe that the inquiries are being robust, they will get to the truth of the matter, a...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shona Robison
SNP
Briefly.
Brian Whittle
Con
The cabinet secretary said that there should be no political interference during the Covid inquiry. Why then, as soon as Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak stood ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Speak through the chair.
Shona Robison
SNP
There is no comparison. Interruption. Let me turn to the matter of informal messages, such as WhatsApps, which Douglas Ross has focused on. The Scottish Go...
Douglas Ross
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Shona Robison
SNP
Not just now. That fact is demonstrated by the following quote, which was given to the UK inquiry in a witness statement from the Prime Minister, Rishi Suna...
Douglas Ross
Con
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention on that point?
Shona Robison
SNP
In a minute. Of course the material that the Scottish Government has provided to the UK inquiry to date includes emails, messages, submissions and advice to...
Douglas Ross
Con
If the Scottish Government policy of deleting messages is correct and is so important, why did Kate Forbes as finance secretary not know about it, and why di...
Shona Robison
SNP
I have been clear in setting out the policy, which was about making sure that any salient points were transcribed to the official record and then other infor...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I advise members that there really is no time in hand, so members will have to stick to their speaking time allocations and accommodate interventions within ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
As we debate the culture of secrecy and cover-up that has been laid bare in the UK Covid-19 inquiry, let us remember that at the heart of this scandal are th...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Does Jackie Baillie agree with the Conservatives on these benches that we should reconvene the COVID-19 Recovery Committee so that we can get some transparen...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Although I have no objection to that, I am unclear how a committee would do any better than Lady Hallett is doing, in fairness. Having been on the Salmond co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Ms Baillie, please resume your seat for a second. There is far too much background noise. Let us show respect and listen to the person who has the floor.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Thank you. I was coming to why I think that those actions are a potential breach of the law. Officials appear to have deliberately attempted to communicate i...