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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 30 January 2024

30 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
European Union

No—I have to make progress.

People need change, and that process can start by booting out the Tories and electing a UK Labour Government. Labour has set out practical and achievable solutions to fix the Tories’ Brexit mess with a better relationship with the EU and improvements to the TCA.

We need to use the scheduled review of the TCA to tear down unnecessary trade barriers. We also need to support our world-leading services and scientists by seeking the mutual recognition of professional services. Labour will seek a better deal for financial services, and a new defence and security pact with the EU. In the realm of culture, Labour has set out clearly its intention to fix the visa issues for touring musicians and artists, and to seek an EU cultural touring agreement.

People also want a wider programme of economic and social change. The creation of Great British energy and a new deal for working people are just two important examples of practical, deliverable change that can improve people’s lives.

That is in sharp contrast to the SNP. Its members are not principled on Europe; they are opportunists. The nationalists opposed EU membership in the 1975 referendum. In 2014, they were willing to forsake our place in Europe. We must not forget that the SNP spent more money on the Shetland by-election than it spent during the entire EU referendum campaign. In 2019, during the Brexit votes, it did not even vote in favour of a customs union.

Its policy position on the issue remains unclear and confused. I ask the cabinet secretary about his comments on the Lisbon treaty being

“completely and utterly unacceptable”

and

“a travesty”.—[Official Report, House of Commons, 26 February 2008; Vol 472, c 1020.]

That seems hard to square with the more recent enthusiasm to render an independent Scotland subject to that treaty.

The Government wants an independent Scotland to join the EU but seems ambivalent on whether it is prepared to join the euro—something that many experts agree would be essential. The Government’s own internal analysis, which has been released through freedom of information, shows that it would take years for an independent Scotland to even join the EU—years of vast economic upheaval, about which the Scottish Government is rarely candid with the Scottish public.

That is why people cannot take seriously these debates and those papers. The sad reality is that the debate has more to do with the SNP Government’s internal politics than with matters of substance and of pressing concern to the people of Scotland.

The people of Scotland deserve better. They deserve Scottish and UK Governments that will deliver on their priorities and tackle their concerns.

I move amendment S6M-12004.1, to leave out from “being” to end and insert:

“Scottish and UK Labour administrations.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12004, in the name of Angus Robertson, on Scotland’s place in the European Union. I invite members who wi...
The Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson) SNP
Tomorrow marks the fourth anniversary of Scotland being taken out of the European Union. Scotland was not only removed from the EU but forced out of the sing...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I think that the minister will be bored with his own speech, given that he has made the same one several times before. Nevertheless, has he drawn together an...
Angus Robertson SNP
Willie Rennie knows that the European Union single market is, as I think that I am right in saying, seven times larger than the United Kingdom’s. Unlike him,...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Angus Robertson SNP
I want to make a bit more progress on this point, but I will give way later to Mr Bibby. The EU market is seven times the size of the UK—almost 450 million...
Neil Bibby Lab
I am not sure what the Scottish National Party’s position on the customs union is, because, in 2019, during the Brexit votes, it did not vote in favour of a ...
Angus Robertson SNP
I agreed at that time that people should have a view and should be able to cast a vote in favour of the European Union. That was my support for there being a...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angus Robertson SNP
I am going to finish this point. We can continue down that road or we can seek to emulate the success of comparable independent countries in Europe that are ...
Alexander Stewart Con
We know that Scotland’s exports are three times those of the EU. The London School of Economics and Political Science centre for economic performance has tal...
Angus Robertson SNP
I noticed that Alexander Stewart was not prepared to reflect on the relative economic decline of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, as clearly demo...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Members will wish to know that there is time in hand for interventions. We will be as generous as possible in that regard. I call Donald Cameron to speak to...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The title of this debate is “An independent Scotland in the EU”.
The Minister for Independence (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I just want to correct the record. That is not the title of the debate. It is “Scotland’s place in the European Union”. That will be an important point as th...
Donald Cameron Con
I thank Jamie Hepburn for that very important intervention. Here we are, yet again, debating a hypothetical wrapped in speculation inside a misconception, t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Mr Cameron has listed a lot of worthy things that we would all like to do, but does he recognise that the Centre for European Reform has estimated that Brexi...
Donald Cameron Con
Of course, an independent Scotland would incur huge costs and, like many of his fellow party members, Kevin Stewart is incapable of recognising the severe ec...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary is a fan of fantasy football, as I am. If he is not, I encourage him to become one, because he would be better sp...
Angus Robertson SNP
When Mr Bibby intervened on me earlier, I asked him what the Scottish Labour Party’s position was. He was not able, or not prepared, to answer then, so will ...
Neil Bibby Lab
We will seek to fix the Tories’ Brexit mess. I will come to the details of how we want to have greater co-operation with our European partners. However, the...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Neil Bibby Lab
No—I have to make progress. People need change, and that process can start by booting out the Tories and electing a UK Labour Government. Labour has set o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Willie Rennie to speak to and move amendment S6M-12004.3. 14:52
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I always listen very carefully to the cabinet secretary. However, the more I listened to him this afternoon, the more I heard echoes of Jacob Rees-Mogg. That...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
No, not just now. I am just making this very powerful argument. Laughter. I remember that Alex Salmond was more obsessed with attacking the UK Government t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I tried to intervene on Mr Rennie when he was making his argument about what we spent on the EU referendum. He forgets that we won that referendum in Scotlan...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The last time I debated one of the prospectus for independence papers, we were discussing the creation of a modern constitution for an independent Scotland. ...