Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 18 January 2024
18 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
No. One of the things that I am optimistic and upbeat about is that, given where we have come from—the committee has taken a considerable amount of evidence on that from across the culture sector, which has illustrated the challenges that there have been because of Covid, Covid recovery, the wider economic situation and, yes, past flat budget settlements, in some cases—there is a sense that we need to reimagine how we should approach our support, which is something we agree, across the parties, that we need to do. That is why I am very keen that we take this opportunity not simply to ask how we are going to use the additional money that is coming and whether we are simply going to apply more resource to support organisations as we have done up until now, but to ask whether we can think in new ways about getting additional resources and whether there are additional ways in which we can support projects that it has not yet been possible to fund. Forgive me, convener, and tell me to stop if I have made this point to the committee before—I am not sure whether I have. We have organisations—Creative Scotland is at the front of the queue—that have a very talented workforce that assesses projects, organisations and venues for funding. Because of the funding envelope, in certain years, Creative Scotland will be able to fund some but not all those organisations. That is not because there are unworthy of support or venues are unworthy of investment; it is because one has to operate within a funding envelope. However, in effect, that means that a due diligence process has been gone through that says, “Yes, these are really, really good projects; they just don’t work financially this year.” Therefore, if additional funding can be brought in from elsewhere, why should we not take another look at how the culture infrastructure in Scotland can be supported in areas where there are city deals, at whether the money has been drawn down, at whether there are projects that might fall into the ambit of those deals that have not done so yet, at whether we can support that and at whether we should do more? I am absolutely keen for us to take a look at that—and I am delighted that Penelope Cooper is taking notes. We want to be as imaginative as possible. 10:30 I have said this in the chamber and I will say it again, because the outside world, and particularly the sector, is looking: I want to work with people across the committee and across the Parliament, because there is no monopoly of good ideas or common sense. Regarding suggestions of where additional funding might come from, we have spoken at the committee in the past about the percentage for the arts scheme, the visitor levy and philanthropy. City deals also fall into that basket from which additional support might be available. We must not allow projects to fall by the wayside from one year to the next. We have organisations that do the due diligence and the work on the culture and arts side, as well as in the heritage sector. As committee members know well, we are trying to protect our built and natural heritage, of which we have a lot in Scotland. We are trying to repair and restore many buildings, and there are people who want to support that effort. There are funding streams that can potentially do that, too. We have an opportunity to think anew. I do not think that we can just carry on as before, so it behoves us all—the Government, Creative Scotland, Historic Environment Scotland and Screen Scotland—to think about how we are doing what we are doing. We should be thinking about what we should be doing more of and what we might do less of or do differently, and now is absolutely the right time for all of us to be thinking in those terms.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Welcome back. Our third item is our final evidence session on the budget. We are joined by Angus Robertson, the Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, Exter...
The Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson)
SNP
It is always a pleasure to be back at the committee, convener, and thank you for the opportunity to make some opening remarks. First, I would like to thank a...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much, cabinet secretary. Your opening statement answered many of the questions that were asked by cultural organisations last week, so thank y...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I do not think that there is a single, silver bullet through any of the different organisations or funding streams to help the Scottish culture and arts sect...
Mark Ruskell
Green
I come back to your comments about how the additional £6.6 million will be allocated, and the priorities and themes in relation to that spend. The impression...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I acknowledge the importance of those funds for Creative Scotland as it goes through the significant funding change to multiyear funding. The Scottish Govern...
Mark Ruskell
Green
Thanks for that detailed answer. Other members might also be interested to come in on this issue, but I want to go back to your comments about the need to ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
No. One of the things that I am optimistic and upbeat about is that, given where we have come from—the committee has taken a considerable amount of evidence ...
Kate Forbes
SNP
Some of those who gave evidence previously commented that they were enormously relieved by the budget this year. One comment was about the tension between en...
Angus Robertson
SNP
On the point about relief in the sector that we are turning a corner in funding, a significant number of people in the sector have been very kind about the f...
Kate Forbes
SNP
One other question that is indirectly linked concerns the economic powerhouse of culture. We all know that Scotland faces challenging economic circumstances,...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I agree entirely. To take only one example of that, if one needed any evidence for it—we are getting increasing amounts of evidence about the economic impact...
Kate Forbes
SNP
Thank you.
Donald Cameron
Con
Cabinet secretary, you have given some clarity to Mark Ruskell on the £6.6 million that is going to Creative Scotland, but I want to ask about the longer-ter...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Thank you for the question—there was a lot in there. I understand that everybody who cares about the culture and arts sector wants the maximum financial supp...
Donald Cameron
Con
I want to ask about the Edinburgh festival fringe, which you mentioned. Shona McCarthy of the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society outlined to the committee in ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
First off, Edinburgh has a deserved reputation as the festivals capital of the world, and not just because of the decades of festivals that we have had in Sc...
Neil Bibby
Lab
Good morning, cabinet secretary. Following on from Donald Cameron’s question, I note that, last week, we heard about the need for urgency as well as clarity....
Angus Robertson
SNP
It is in addition to the £15 million-plus in this budget. It is cumulative. What we are saying is that, every year, the funding will be in addition to the mo...
Neil Bibby
Lab
My point was that, up until now, there was talk of a minimum of an extra £25 million coming online, but I understand that it is £25 million.
Angus Robertson
SNP
Sorry, but can I stop you there? I have just said that it is £25 million in addition to the £15 million-plus that is being committed in this budget, so it is...
Neil Bibby
Lab
Yes, but previously the indication was that it would be a minimum of £25 million—
Angus Robertson
SNP
I have just confirmed, again, that it is cumulative, so it is just over £40 million additional.
Neil Bibby
Lab
The point that I was going to make is that it would have been a minimum of £40 million if it was more than £25 million. In terms of the clarity that you are...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I have now said this three or four times, I think, so there should be no doubt about the clarity of the commitment that has been given about the additional £...
Neil Bibby
Lab
On that, the Government has pointed to an increase in this budget, as it has done on a number of occasions. However, we know that the culture budget was cut ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I totally understand the question that Mr Bibby is asking and that is being asked by people in the wider culture and arts sector who, understandably, want ma...
Neil Bibby
Lab
If we want to sustain culture and cultural activity and participation, it is important that we ensure that the right resource—whatever that is—is in place. I...
Angus Robertson
SNP
We need to be fully aware that the support of culture is not just the responsibility of the Scottish Government and Scottish Government agencies. Working in ...
The Convener
SNP
I am a wee bit conscious of the time because we also have a private agenda item this morning, but I will move to questions from Mr Stewart.