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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 January 2024

17 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Health Service Waiting Times
Doris, Bob SNP Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn Watch on SPTV

With regard to this afternoon’s debate on the NHS in Scotland, it is worth observing that the substantive motion before us from the Labour Party offers not a single new idea or initiative on what Labour in Scotland would do differently to improve Scotland’s NHS, nor does it identify a single additional penny for Scotland’s NHS.

I acknowledge the Scottish Government’s amendment’s recognition of the fact that health services across the UK are dealing with the long-term impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on waiting times, and its recognition of the fact that too many people are waiting too long for treatment. Of course—despite some improvements—that includes people right here in Scotland. I readily acknowledge that we all wish to see those improvements gather pace.

The Labour motion refers to long-term waits in the NHS. In 2023, Stephanie Howarth, the chief statistician to the Welsh Government, sought to analyse long-term waits across all UK nations. Ms Howarth indicated that, in March 2023, the number of people in Wales waiting for more than one year for treatment pathways was 133,000. The figure in Scotland was 74,000. The number of people in Wales waiting two years was 28,000. In Scotland, it was 8,000. I acknowledge that Ms Howarth says:

“Although we know these figures aren’t entirely equivalent to each other and should not be directly compared”—

that is not what I am doing—

“the methodological differences cannot account for the scale of some of the differences in the numbers waiting longer than one and two years.”

On this occasion, that suggests more impactful progress in Scotland than has been made elsewhere. That will not always be the case, so I ask the Scottish Government how we share such best practice across the UK and how we receive it from elsewhere.

I commend health and social care workers not only in Scotland but across the UK. We need to set the challenges that are faced by Scotland in a pan-UK context, even where that is uncomfortable for Labour, as it includes NHS performance in Wales. Given that the UK Government’s spending plans—which the UK Labour Party has not said that it would deviate from—would see only an additional £10 million increase to Scotland’s budget, thank heavens that our Scottish Government will increase the spend on our NHS by more than £0.5 billion.

I acknowledge that vacancy levels and recruitment remain significant challenges. Again, such challenges are faced right across the UK, which is understandable, given that the impact of Brexit has undermined workforce planning right across the UK. Indeed, Nuffield Trust research indicated that there are 4,000 fewer European doctors working in the NHS because of Brexit. The Nursing and Midwifery Council estimated that, in 2022, there were up to 58,000 fewer European nurses working across the UK compared with pre-Brexit trends.

That is a reality, but the Labour motion, which mentions recruitment challenges, makes no reference to Brexit. It does not have credibility. Of course it makes no reference to Brexit, because that does not suit its agenda. After all, Labour is a pro-Brexit party, which is something that Labour does not like to draw attention to here in Scotland.

I suspect that what will help Scotland’s NHS with its recruitment challenges is the fact that NHS workers in Scotland are the best paid and best supported in the UK. I am aware of the various recruitment initiatives that the Scottish Government is taking to tackle staff vacancies—there are very real challenges. However, I ask whether that includes attracting—unfortunately within the confines of Brexit Britain—many of those EU healthcare professionals who have chosen not to work in Britain as a direct consequence of Brexit.

I absolutely acknowledge the significant and enduring challenges that are faced by Scotland’s NHS—indeed, by healthcare systems right across the UK. Unfortunately, Labour set the terms of reference of today’s debate, and it has pursued cynical political opportunism rather than constructive dialogue. I look forward to the next debate, and I hope that the Labour Party will do much better in that.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11874, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on ending long waits in the national health service. 16:01
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Scotland saw in the new year with accident and emergency departments in utter disarray as thousands of people—the sick and the injured—experienced long and d...
The Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care (Michael Matheson) SNP
As a Government, we remain focused on ensuring that our health service continues to recover from the long-term effects of the pandemic. Scotland is not uniqu...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Michael Matheson SNP
I will if the member allows me to make progress first. The number of waits of more than 78 weeks reduced by 30.1 per cent as of September last year, and 34 ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Is it not the case that you promised to end those waits, not simply reduce them, and that, by your own measure, you have failed?
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please always speak through the chair.
Michael Matheson SNP
As I have set out, the reality is that we are making substantial progress, but, clearly, more needs to be done and we are determined to do that. I know that...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Michael Matheson SNP
I need to make progress, given the limited time, I am afraid. For example, since 2021, we have invested £8.6 million in programmes through the Centre for Su...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a practising NHS general practitioner. There we have it: everything is fine h...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
In the Borders, people are having to wait 39 weeks for their first appointment for CAMHS treatment. The Government should apologise for the appalling lack of...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I could not agree more. Our kids are suffering and our SNP Government is not looking after them. Let us look at the NHS estate. The SNP’s manifesto pledged...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am very grateful to Jackie Baillie for bringing the motion to Parliament. Before I begin my remarks, I congratulate her on her investiture as a dame at the...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:22
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This issue is perhaps the one that I hear most about from constituents across South Scotland, and that is why it is essential that it is given fair hearing h...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which shows that I hold a bank nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. As some...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Once again, it was the pandemic that did it. That is the sole reason that we have heard from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care for the crisis ...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
We all admire the dedication and hard work of NHS staff. Whatever help we need, they go to incredible lengths to keep us healthy, and we owe them our thanks ...
Clare Haughey SNP
Will the member give way?
Annie Wells Con
I do not have time. I have a lot to say and I am in my final minute. The consequences of those systemic problems are that our excellent NHS staff cannot del...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
It is a pleasure to speak in this very short debate on Scotland’s health service. It is important to recognise at the outset the challenges that we face and ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Dame Jackie Baillie on the honours that she received today. I am disappointed that she did not wear the hat to the chamber. When Opposition p...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
With regard to this afternoon’s debate on the NHS in Scotland, it is worth observing that the substantive motion before us from the Labour Party offers not a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to winding-up speeches. 16:53
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The complacency of the SNP Government as the NHS spirals is staggering. As we have heard in the debate, from waiting times to workforce planning the NHS is i...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Always speak through the chair, please.
Tess White Con
The SNP says that the NHS has record staffing levels, but the SNP does not like to hear the truth. The reality is that the NHS has massive vacancies and high...
Clare Haughey SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer NPA
The member must conclude.