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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 January 2024

17 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Health Service Waiting Times

I congratulate Dame Jackie Baillie on the honours that she received today. I am disappointed that she did not wear the hat to the chamber.

When Opposition parties debate those great pillars of devolved government, health and education, as we have done so well today, I think that they generally do so for good reason. The points that are made in such debates are often backed up with statistics and facts and informed by stakeholder evidence. I say gently to Mr McKee that they are not talking points; they are about facts, and they are worth debating in the chamber.

The Government’s response to such debates is predictable. There is little sign of contrition or acceptance of any of the criticism that is directed towards it; there is denial of the scale or extent of the problems that we face; and there is a huge amount of whataboutery, of the kind that we heard from the cabinet secretary. Today’s debate is a fine example of that.

Labour rightly pointed out that 80,000 people have waited for more than a year for planned care. It rightly raised the years of missed targets and the growing workforce problems that are faced. In our amendment, we highlighted the worrying cuts to drug and alcohol services and raised the plight of the 1 million people who have waited for more than four hours at A and E since 2020-21.

The Lib Dems raised issues around NHS staff, who are at the core of such debates, and the Greens did not even bother to turn up this afternoon. That says so much.

Immediately, in its opening line, the Government’s feeble amendment—it is a feeble amendment—seeks to remove the phrase “is alarmed” from the motion, because it is clearly not as alarmed as we or, indeed, our constituents are. The Government goes as far as to congratulate itself on the fact that fewer patients are waiting more than two years for an appointment to be seen. Its amendment seeks to remove all references to the drug and alcohol deaths, to A and E waiting times, to mental health waiting times and, frankly, to anything else that seems to embarrass it. In fact, the only defence in the Government’s amendment is that all devolved policy makers seem to be doing a terrible job at managing health. In other words, it is all relative. That is mediocrity at its very worst.

All too often, the bad news is buried away rather than being publicly available. For example, in doing research for the debate, audiology waiting times could not be found. From a response to a freedom of information request, we learned that that data is not published,

“following agreement with the Scottish Government”.

What a surprise.

Yesterday, speech therapy figures were released not by the Government but by the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists. It, too, had to FOI the data. From that data, we discovered that 6,500 children in Scotland are currently on a waiting list for their first appointment. That is shocking. I have raised the issue because, in my area, the waiting list was closed because it was more than two years long. That is despicable.

What about mental health waiting times? One patient in Ayrshire and Arran waited 91 weeks for their first CAMHS appointment. Can members imagine that? We know that only because we FOI-ed it. We know such things only because we submit FOIs and ask written questions. We never hear such information from the Government, and we certainly never hear it in its debates.

I am afraid that the Government’s amendment is sheer brass neck. It has been parroted repeatedly today that the NHS in Scotland is free at the point of need. Well, here is a reality check. Someone who wants to see a dentist this week in Greenock will get an appointment only if they offer to pay for one. That is the reality of the NHS in Scotland. The same goes for people who want a hearing aid or who are desperate for a knee or hip replacement. They will have to borrow the money, cash in their savings and go abroad or go private. That is the reality of the health service today, in 2024.

With the Government’s amendment, the only people that it is fooling are themselves. Fixing the problem requires admitting that there is a problem. It is not creeping privatisation that we need to worry about—it is creeping ineptitude in Government, and there is plenty of that going around.

16:48  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11874, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on ending long waits in the national health service. 16:01
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Scotland saw in the new year with accident and emergency departments in utter disarray as thousands of people—the sick and the injured—experienced long and d...
The Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care (Michael Matheson) SNP
As a Government, we remain focused on ensuring that our health service continues to recover from the long-term effects of the pandemic. Scotland is not uniqu...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Michael Matheson SNP
I will if the member allows me to make progress first. The number of waits of more than 78 weeks reduced by 30.1 per cent as of September last year, and 34 ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Is it not the case that you promised to end those waits, not simply reduce them, and that, by your own measure, you have failed?
The Presiding Officer NPA
Please always speak through the chair.
Michael Matheson SNP
As I have set out, the reality is that we are making substantial progress, but, clearly, more needs to be done and we are determined to do that. I know that...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Michael Matheson SNP
I need to make progress, given the limited time, I am afraid. For example, since 2021, we have invested £8.6 million in programmes through the Centre for Su...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a practising NHS general practitioner. There we have it: everything is fine h...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
In the Borders, people are having to wait 39 weeks for their first appointment for CAMHS treatment. The Government should apologise for the appalling lack of...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I could not agree more. Our kids are suffering and our SNP Government is not looking after them. Let us look at the NHS estate. The SNP’s manifesto pledged...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I am very grateful to Jackie Baillie for bringing the motion to Parliament. Before I begin my remarks, I congratulate her on her investiture as a dame at the...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
We move to the open debate. 16:22
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
This issue is perhaps the one that I hear most about from constituents across South Scotland, and that is why it is essential that it is given fair hearing h...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which shows that I hold a bank nurse contract with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. As some...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Once again, it was the pandemic that did it. That is the sole reason that we have heard from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care for the crisis ...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
We all admire the dedication and hard work of NHS staff. Whatever help we need, they go to incredible lengths to keep us healthy, and we owe them our thanks ...
Clare Haughey SNP
Will the member give way?
Annie Wells Con
I do not have time. I have a lot to say and I am in my final minute. The consequences of those systemic problems are that our excellent NHS staff cannot del...
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
It is a pleasure to speak in this very short debate on Scotland’s health service. It is important to recognise at the outset the challenges that we face and ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Dame Jackie Baillie on the honours that she received today. I am disappointed that she did not wear the hat to the chamber. When Opposition p...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
With regard to this afternoon’s debate on the NHS in Scotland, it is worth observing that the substantive motion before us from the Labour Party offers not a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to winding-up speeches. 16:53
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The complacency of the SNP Government as the NHS spirals is staggering. As we have heard in the debate, from waiting times to workforce planning the NHS is i...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Always speak through the chair, please.
Tess White Con
The SNP says that the NHS has record staffing levels, but the SNP does not like to hear the truth. The reality is that the NHS has massive vacancies and high...
Clare Haughey SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer NPA
The member must conclude.