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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 January 2024

17 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

The cabinet secretary talked about the number of issues that are in the Labour motion. I know that she is busy talking just now, but I suggest to her that we use Government time. Why does the Government not bring forward some of these debates in its time so that we can discuss what I think is the most important issue in Scotland—the failings in our education system and the pressure on teachers, pupils and all staff in our schools?

The cabinet secretary said that she has previously set out a comprehensive plan, but I do not believe that it was a comprehensive plan. If I remember correctly, point 1 of that plan was to come up with a plan.

The cabinet secretary has also talked about the commitment to teachers and pupils and said that she has met many teachers. I think that I have said before that I met a lot of teachers during the teachers’ industrial action dispute, when I went on picket lines because I believed that teachers needed a better deal. I have to say that nothing prepared me for the discussions that I had with them about the kind of issues and problems in schools that put massive pressure on them. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and their sickness levels from stress are going up and up because we are not tackling those issues.

I do not doubt for a second the cabinet secretary’s sincerity when she called for the three emergency summits to talk about the issues and what we can do about them. The problem for the cabinet secretary is that she does not control the budget. We need more resources going into our primary and secondary schools, and, as Pam Duncan-Glancy says, we particularly need to look at additional support needs.

A month or so ago, I met a group of parents, all of whom have children with additional support needs. They were very critical. They pointed out that their children were being failed when they were put into mainstream schooling and the additional support teachers were not there to support them. Not only are those parents’ children not being supported but, because teachers are struggling to support them, they are not able to support the rest of the children in the class. The point that the parents made to me was that the Government’s policies mean that we are not getting it right for many children, never mind getting it right for every child.

Kate Forbes spoke about kids being able to read, write and count. Numerous secondary school teachers have told me that cohorts of kids are coming up from primary school who are not equipped with the basic numeracy and literacy skills to proceed into the secondary education system. They are doomed to failure as they come from primary school into secondary school. That must be addressed.

The cabinet secretary has to recognise that we need to put in more resources for additional support needs so that every child is given the right chance and we can truly look up.

Finally, mention has been made of the Scottish child payment. The child payment is great—it is tackling poverty—but we need to tackle the root causes of poverty. The best tools that we have for doing that are the education, training and skills that will equip children for the future. That is where our focus must be. We need more resources, and I hope that the cabinet secretary will bring forward more debates in Government time so that we can spend more time on the issue.

15:30  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11875, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on stand up for quality education. I invite members who wish to ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
My party and I have long believed that education can be a great leveller, spreading opportunity for all, and that it should be built on the values of opportu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
The Labour motion refers to the programme for international student assessment results, teacher workload, additional support needs, challenging behaviour, wo...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to give way to Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
With respect, the motion includes all those things because they are interconnected. For too long, parents, teachers and pupils have seen this Government pick...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am not necessarily sure that I agree with the rationale behind Ms Duncan-Glancy’s thinking. Her motion looks to me a bit like a copy-and-paste job. Nonethe...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for mentioning the ACEL data. Are those the same teachers that we did not trust with the assessments during Covid or w...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am not sure that I understand the member’s point in relation to what happened during the pandemic. However, it is important that we look at a broad range o...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The cabinet secretary is in her last 20 seconds.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
—to protect Scotland’s children from the impacts of Westminster austerity. That is why we have invested in the Scottish child payment, lifting an estimated 9...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Cabinet secretary, you need to conclude.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I have been clear in acknowledging the challenges, but I am asking once again for all members to engage constructively in the debate, because it is only by w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I move amendment S6M-11875.2, to leave out from “and the conclusions” to end and insert: “which highlight areas for improvement in Scottish education, parti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We have no time in hand to speak of, so I invite members to stick to the time that they have agreed to. Members have actually agreed to their speaking slots,...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
This is an incredibly important debate, because I think that we would all agree that education is the key brief in sorting out the myriad of issues that Scot...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I hope that it will be a constructive and reasonable Willie Rennie who makes this contribution.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Let us see.
Willie Rennie LD
It might not last, but. Actually, I have some serious issues to raise, some of which we raised this morning in the Education, Children and Young People Comm...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:17
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing the motion to the chamber on behalf of Scottish Labour. She was right to begin by highlighting the PISA s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Marra, you need to conclude.
Michael Marra Lab
The solution that is coming forward from this Government will result in all the money that they have paid being lost.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kate Forbes, who joins us remotely. 15:21
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Forgive me for not being present, although it might be timely to spare a thought for the many young Highland pupils who are off school today due to the snow ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ms Forbes, you need to bring your remarks to a close, please.
Kate Forbes SNP
I will close there. 15:26
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary talked about the number of issues that are in the Labour motion. I know that she is busy talking just now, but I suggest to her that we...