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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 January 2024

17 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education

It might not last, but.

Actually, I have some serious issues to raise, some of which we raised this morning in the Education, Children and Young People Committee, and I want to extract a little from that.

We are eight years into a 10-year SNP education reform programme. The programme was a response to what was seen as a crisis at the time, which was about international performance and the poverty-related attainment gap. However, I think that the education secretary knows that very little has changed since then and that, in many cases, it has got worse. The latest PISA study shows that we have slipped further on international performance, and the poverty-related attainment gap is, bluntly, stuck although it was supposed to have been closed in just two years. I know that there is debate about whether it was to be substantially closed or closed completely, but we have not really made much progress in that time.

I accept that a lot has happened. The pandemic has had a significant impact, but young people today do not want excuses; they just want the decent education that they were promised, and they are not seeing that. Pam Duncan-Glancy is right with the list of problems that she has identified in relation to temporary teachers, additional support for learning, class contact time and behaviour. I will not rehearse all those issues. However, the evidence is that the education reforms that were set out in year 1 of the 10-year programme just have not worked. I believe that that is simply because the Government did not really know at that time what the cause of the decline was. It did not really understand what the problems were.

I make no apology for making a speech that focuses on what I think the problems are, because our job in this place is to try to make things better. Of course, I will celebrate the work that is done in schools and by teachers, but our job is to make things better, so let us focus on the things that we need to improve.

This morning, in the Education, Children and Young People Committee, I asked the cabinet secretary about the issue. She could come up with only one thing that was wrong with Scottish education, which was the transition from the broad general education into the senior phase. That is important, but we cannot really claim that that is the reason why we have had such poor poverty-related attainment gap and PISA figures over the time of the Government’s reform programme, whether they have gone up or down relative to the figures in other countries. We cannot really believe that that is the root cause, especially when PISA is for 15-year-olds, many of whom have not gone through the transition from the BGE to the senior phase.

When I asked Shirley-Anne Somerville, the cabinet secretary’s predecessor, what she thought the problem was, she cited the lack of regional improvement collaboratives. They were scrapped almost before they were established, so I do not think that we can say that they were the reason. We do not have a substitute explanation for what has gone wrong. As a result, we have had a rag-tag bunch of reforms that have little focus and little cohesion. I will make a few suggestions as to what the problem is.

The role of knowledge is important, and there was a dilution of knowledge and concepts even before curriculum for excellence accelerated it.

The systems of accountability within Education Scotland have also been weak. The agency does not have the heft to effectively challenge local and central Government to drive improvement. It did not even pick up on the decline in performance in the PISA figures and the poverty-related attainment gap.

Another factor is the lack of support for classroom materials. Curriculum for excellence turned teacher empowerment into teacher isolation. Teachers were left to create classroom content from woolly principles that were difficult to decipher.

There is also the issue of resources, which many others have talked about, as well as the BGE senior phase transition.

That is my analysis of what has gone wrong with Scottish education. The Government needs to be able simply to set out what the problems are, even if it does not agree with me. If it cannot do that, it cannot fix them and we will end up with an incoherent set of random changes.

We have a debate coming up soon in which we will be able to explore what the solutions are. I will make an equally constructive contribution to that. However, we need to get a focus on what the problems are before we move forward.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11875, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on stand up for quality education. I invite members who wish to ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
My party and I have long believed that education can be a great leveller, spreading opportunity for all, and that it should be built on the values of opportu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
The Labour motion refers to the programme for international student assessment results, teacher workload, additional support needs, challenging behaviour, wo...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to give way to Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
With respect, the motion includes all those things because they are interconnected. For too long, parents, teachers and pupils have seen this Government pick...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am not necessarily sure that I agree with the rationale behind Ms Duncan-Glancy’s thinking. Her motion looks to me a bit like a copy-and-paste job. Nonethe...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for mentioning the ACEL data. Are those the same teachers that we did not trust with the assessments during Covid or w...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am not sure that I understand the member’s point in relation to what happened during the pandemic. However, it is important that we look at a broad range o...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The cabinet secretary is in her last 20 seconds.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
—to protect Scotland’s children from the impacts of Westminster austerity. That is why we have invested in the Scottish child payment, lifting an estimated 9...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Cabinet secretary, you need to conclude.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I have been clear in acknowledging the challenges, but I am asking once again for all members to engage constructively in the debate, because it is only by w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I move amendment S6M-11875.2, to leave out from “and the conclusions” to end and insert: “which highlight areas for improvement in Scottish education, parti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We have no time in hand to speak of, so I invite members to stick to the time that they have agreed to. Members have actually agreed to their speaking slots,...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
This is an incredibly important debate, because I think that we would all agree that education is the key brief in sorting out the myriad of issues that Scot...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I hope that it will be a constructive and reasonable Willie Rennie who makes this contribution.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Let us see.
Willie Rennie LD
It might not last, but. Actually, I have some serious issues to raise, some of which we raised this morning in the Education, Children and Young People Comm...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:17
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing the motion to the chamber on behalf of Scottish Labour. She was right to begin by highlighting the PISA s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Marra, you need to conclude.
Michael Marra Lab
The solution that is coming forward from this Government will result in all the money that they have paid being lost.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Kate Forbes, who joins us remotely. 15:21
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Forgive me for not being present, although it might be timely to spare a thought for the many young Highland pupils who are off school today due to the snow ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ms Forbes, you need to bring your remarks to a close, please.
Kate Forbes SNP
I will close there. 15:26
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary talked about the number of issues that are in the Labour motion. I know that she is busy talking just now, but I suggest to her that we...