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Committee

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 11 January 2024

11 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival) Watch on SPTV
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already been said, so I will be brief and perhaps focus on your questions around confidence and the strategy. First, we welcome the budget announcement of increased funding and the First Minister’s commitment to an additional £100 million. That went some way to restoring some of the loss of confidence over recent months. However, as Lori Anderson set out clearly, although there is an additional uplift for the national collections, national performing companies and the V&A, which we really welcome, it looks like there is nothing similar for Creative Scotland. The implications of that for the RFO network of very small organisations around the country is serious. For the Edinburgh International Festival, it means that we are looking at a 16th year of flat funding. You can imagine the impact of inflationary increases on our cost base over that period. It is extraordinarily difficult for any organisation to manage 16 years of flat funding, irrespective of how well it is run or of other sources of income that it might have. I have worked in the industry for coming up to 30 years and I have never known it to be as difficult as that. That is the backdrop. Although the movement in the Government’s narrative is extremely welcome—and we must commend the cabinet secretary for securing any increase in the culture budget at this point—as others have said, it is not yet finding its way through to the places that it needs to get to. As Simon Hunt said clearly, that means that we have to reduce activity. For us, that means that we cannot do the closing event, which was a free event for the people of Edinburgh to come and look at the fireworks. We physically cannot afford to do that any more. We have to row back from providing activities that do not generate revenue, because there is no headroom in the budget. The people who suffer are the people in communities across Scotland who most need and benefit from cultural activity. As yet, the relief that was promised by the statements in the budget, the cabinet secretary’s letter and the First Minister’s words is not yet working its way through. Simon Hunt also mentioned the UK Government tax reliefs. They are incredibly welcome and they are what is keeping a lot of the sector afloat right now. Without UK Government support, I am not sure where lots of us would be, and we have to acknowledge that. As has been said previously, over the next 18 months, we have an opportunity to figure that out. For the international festival, from 2025 onwards, unless there is a significant step change in income—all sources of income, not just public—we will have a seven-figure deficit and that is not sustainable, so something significant needs to change. We—and colleagues around the table—are keen to work with Government to figure out what that change could be. That brings us on to the strategy. I welcome the fact that it has arrived but, for me, it does not yet provide a clear route to delivering that transformation and step change, and it does not yet match the level of ambition that we are starting to hear from the Government in the words of the cabinet secretary and the First Minister. There is yet to be more alignment between that ambition and the tangible outcomes and actions. Quite a lot of what is in the strategy is internal to the Government. It talks about exploring and scoping things, and more strategies. It does not yet provide those bold, ambitious steps that will really change the fortunes of the sector. That is not in there yet. Again, I would be very happy to work with Government on that. 09:45 The essential question is this: there is limited resource and there is excess demand on that resource, so how do we square that? That is what the strategy needs to address. If there is limited resource at the moment, how do we grow the pot? What examples can we look at around the world? What innovative things can we do? How do we, as an entrepreneurial sector, use our brains to think about how we grow that pot? If we cannot do that, what is the strategy for making cuts? That is not in the strategy. What is there is about growth and delivering outcomes for the country, but it dodges the difficult questions. It must address those for us, so that we can at least have the clarity that we do not have yet. I would say that it is a mixed bag. There is confidence that Government has heard and listened, and it has made some positive statements about additional investment in the sector. There is less confidence about its ability to deliver on some of the difficult questions that need tangible and bold steps.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Adamson) SNP
I wish you a good morning and a warm welcome to the first meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Happy new year...
Lori Anderson (Culture Counts)
Thank you for inviting Culture Counts to return to the committee to provide post-budget evidence. I thank the committee for its work on pre-budget scrutiny a...
The Convener SNP
Thank you. I invite Anne Lyden to make some comments.
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland)
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotla...
The Convener SNP
I welcome Leonie Bell to the meeting. Our opening questions were about whether the Scottish Government’s budget and the new strategy meet the committee’s rec...
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee)
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online w...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Fiona. I will move to Sam, who joins us online.
Sam Dunkley (Musicians Union)
Good morning. Thanks for the invitation to join you today. Reflecting on the budget that was announced, the feeling among our members and colleagues is that...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy, would you like to come in next?
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this...
Simon Hunt (Scottish Opera)
Thank you for inviting us. My colleagues around the table have made a lot of the points that I wanted to make, so I will focus on the issues that are specifi...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much. I now call Francesca Hegyi.
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival)
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already b...
The Convener SNP
Thank you all for your opening contributions. I am now going to move to questions from members. We do not have a lot of time this morning, as we have a secon...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Good morning to the panel. We have heard a lot about the on-going crisis in funding and we have previously discussed the perfect storm that is affecting fund...
Francesca Hegyi
It is sad to see those levels of participation drop off. There are probably two main reasons for that, and you have alighted on the first one, which is that ...
Simon Hunt
We certainly experienced a big drop-off as a result of Covid. There has been a change to audience behaviour and, quite markedly, the quickest to return was o...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea
I want to feed back from the conversations that we have been having recently. The majority of members are saying that there is no doubt that they are having ...
Leonie Bell
We have to analyse it beyond just the culture funding levels and what the culture sector does. We operate in and are deeply attuned to the wider local, natio...
Shona McCarthy
I was going to say pretty much what Leonie Bell has said. It is about people’s disposable income. The impact of the cost of living crisis makes people much c...
Neil Bibby Lab
Thank you for those answers. A number of you mentioned the local context and local government funding. We have talked about the national budget, and Culture ...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy mentioned the visitor levy. Do you want to expand on your thoughts on that?
Shona McCarthy
We welcome the visitor levy, as a concept. However, so far, I have mostly seen an ever-growing list of what gaps the levy income might be used to plug. That ...
Lori Anderson
To pick up on Neil Bibby’s point about local authorities, they are another important backbone of the investment in local and regional cultural services and v...
Simon Hunt
I note that this week, south of the border—I have not heard of anything quite so alarming in Scotland—Suffolk County Council announced a 100 per cent reducti...
Sam Dunkley
I have a couple of points. We have had contact from our members to say that they are starting to see local councils revisiting the idea of cutting or vastly ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I thank all the panel members for their candid evidence. I have two questions. The first is about salary costs, and particularly public sector pay awards, wh...
Anne Lyden
To answer that point, yes, the efficiency saving in effect cancels out that money. It feels as though we are being handed a perceived uplift with one hand an...
Francesca Hegyi
On the question about salaries, we are not governed by the same public sector salary requirements. In practice, that means that we often do not pay at the sa...