Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 11 January 2024
11 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
Watch on SPTV
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this year with joy and positivity, so I come at this from a positive angle. So many of my colleagues have already covered many of the things that I had noted down to say, so I will not repeat that; I will jump quite quickly to the specifics of the fringe. Like everybody else, we welcome and celebrate the efforts that have gone in. Everybody is aware of just how acutely challenging it is, in the current environment, to create a budget that is fair to all the different needs. We therefore welcome the budget announcement and the cabinet secretary’s hard work to secure the investment, and we welcome in particular the pledges from the First Minister to increase the funding. There are real positives in there for Creative Scotland, for the national portfolio organisations and for our colleagues at V&A Dundee—I was absolutely delighted to hear that news. In truth, however, we have absolutely no idea how the budget is going to impact the Edinburgh fringe. We need a specific and bespoke response. The fringe is a global brand for Scotland, but we fall between the cracks of all the existing funding mechanisms; I still find it quite astounding to say that out loud. We get support through the expo and place-based investment funds, but those are restricted—funding from the first is to support the Made in Scotland Showcase at the fringe and the onward touring of shows from Scotland, and funding from the second is to support our extensive community engagement and our access and learning programmes. We do not receive core support. We suffer from not being a regularly funded organisation, and not fitting within the major events portfolio as we are not a mobile or one-off event. We are not a start-up, so we do not fit with the enterprise route. We are not right for Creative Scotland, EventScotland or Scottish Enterprise, although occasionally we have secured one-off small pots of funding. However, we are the biggest performing arts festival in the world, which happens every single year in the Scottish capital, including some 900 shows from across Scotland: from the isles and from every single other part of Scotland. There is also the reputational impact and reach; the benefit for the performing arts across the UK; and the 63 countries around the world that participate on the stages of the fringe. To put starkly our current position, we go into 2024 with no reserves, carrying a huge deficit and carrying a loan from the Scottish Government to survive Covid. We are the only cultural organisation in receipt of a loan as opposed to a grant, and we continue to suffer from the historic wrong of having been removed as an RFO by Creative Scotland back in 2016, which is why we had to get a loan. In 2020, we said that it would take us five to six years to recover from the wreckage of the pandemic. 2024 is the fourth year of that, and it is crucial that we at the very least break even this year. We very much hope that much of the funding announced will go to supporting those Scottish artists, companies and venues that are at the heart of the fringe, but the fringe society and those producing venues outwith the RFO portfolio need a bespoke understanding and approach, because we have no idea how the budget announcements will impact us. On the bigger picture, I think that Scotland needs to decide whether it wants to retain Edinburgh’s status as a festival city. Edinburgh’s festivals are not like festivals in other cities. Edinburgh has been an inspirational festival city to Europe and the world. I know this because I was on the outside of it looking in with massive envy until I got on the inside of it and realised just how jeopardised it is. If we value and want to retain the global reputation that that status brings, there needs to be a new approach. The festivals know that, and we are working more collaboratively and more creatively than ever, but we need a new approach and a new response from the Scottish Government and the City of Edinburgh Council. We are very effective at attracting commercial partnerships, but we have to invest in people to be able to do that. We need core investment to support the people, and we need to look like we are an attractive sector to work in. Everybody would agree that the attractiveness of our sector as a place of employment and a place for people to want to work has been severely damaged over the past few years. We have some philanthropic support and could attract more, but only if we can show that we also have Government investment, because we look less attractive to philanthropic giving if we do not have the support of our own Government. As Leonie Bell said, we want to be ambitious, world leading, competitive and excellent in all that we do. We have made major public commitments and targets around fair employment, sustainability, access, inclusion and Scotland’s international reputation, but it is hard to be ambitious and to achieve all the things that we want to as creative, entrepreneurial people when we cannot even get out of the deficit that we have been carrying since 2020. I will make a final couple of points that I do not think anybody has addressed yet. We appreciate how hard times are for everyone, but when there is money available, it is important that the right choices are made. I welcomed the shifting of the events budget into the portfolio of the Deputy First Minister, because it pained us last year to see such a level of investment in the UCI cycling world championships. I have nothing against cycling—cycling is great—but it was hard to see tens of millions of pounds going into a one-off event when there is a locally rooted, 76-year-old, long-term, high-value and low-cost event that has a sustained cultural, social and economic impact in every possible way. Making the right choices about locally rooted events over high-cost, low-value events is important. I am also greatly concerned by the tourism levy, because, when it comes into play, there seems to be a shopping list against it that will dilute its impact on everything. If there are no other routes for us to get support, we need, at the very least, to be written strongly into the approach. The fringe society wants to work collaboratively with the Scottish Government. We see ourselves as a major player in the nation’s cultural ecology, and we want to look forward and be positive. We support the Culture Counts ambition for Scotland as a nation to spend 1 per cent of Government expenditure on culture. That would still be below the European average, but it is a worthy ambition. 09:30
In the same item of business
The Convener (Clare Adamson)
SNP
I wish you a good morning and a warm welcome to the first meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Happy new year...
Lori Anderson (Culture Counts)
Thank you for inviting Culture Counts to return to the committee to provide post-budget evidence. I thank the committee for its work on pre-budget scrutiny a...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. I invite Anne Lyden to make some comments.
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland)
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotla...
The Convener
SNP
I welcome Leonie Bell to the meeting. Our opening questions were about whether the Scottish Government’s budget and the new strategy meet the committee’s rec...
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee)
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online w...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much, Fiona. I will move to Sam, who joins us online.
Sam Dunkley (Musicians Union)
Good morning. Thanks for the invitation to join you today. Reflecting on the budget that was announced, the feeling among our members and colleagues is that...
The Convener
SNP
Shona McCarthy, would you like to come in next?
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this...
Simon Hunt (Scottish Opera)
Thank you for inviting us. My colleagues around the table have made a lot of the points that I wanted to make, so I will focus on the issues that are specifi...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I now call Francesca Hegyi.
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival)
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already b...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you all for your opening contributions. I am now going to move to questions from members. We do not have a lot of time this morning, as we have a secon...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning to the panel. We have heard a lot about the on-going crisis in funding and we have previously discussed the perfect storm that is affecting fund...
Francesca Hegyi
It is sad to see those levels of participation drop off. There are probably two main reasons for that, and you have alighted on the first one, which is that ...
Simon Hunt
We certainly experienced a big drop-off as a result of Covid. There has been a change to audience behaviour and, quite markedly, the quickest to return was o...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea
I want to feed back from the conversations that we have been having recently. The majority of members are saying that there is no doubt that they are having ...
Leonie Bell
We have to analyse it beyond just the culture funding levels and what the culture sector does. We operate in and are deeply attuned to the wider local, natio...
Shona McCarthy
I was going to say pretty much what Leonie Bell has said. It is about people’s disposable income. The impact of the cost of living crisis makes people much c...
Neil Bibby
Lab
Thank you for those answers. A number of you mentioned the local context and local government funding. We have talked about the national budget, and Culture ...
The Convener
SNP
Shona McCarthy mentioned the visitor levy. Do you want to expand on your thoughts on that?
Shona McCarthy
We welcome the visitor levy, as a concept. However, so far, I have mostly seen an ever-growing list of what gaps the levy income might be used to plug. That ...
Lori Anderson
To pick up on Neil Bibby’s point about local authorities, they are another important backbone of the investment in local and regional cultural services and v...
Simon Hunt
I note that this week, south of the border—I have not heard of anything quite so alarming in Scotland—Suffolk County Council announced a 100 per cent reducti...
Sam Dunkley
I have a couple of points. We have had contact from our members to say that they are starting to see local councils revisiting the idea of cutting or vastly ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I thank all the panel members for their candid evidence. I have two questions. The first is about salary costs, and particularly public sector pay awards, wh...
Anne Lyden
To answer that point, yes, the efficiency saving in effect cancels out that money. It feels as though we are being handed a perceived uplift with one hand an...
Francesca Hegyi
On the question about salaries, we are not governed by the same public sector salary requirements. In practice, that means that we often do not pay at the sa...