Committee
Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 11 January 2024
11 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
Watch on SPTV
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online was a strange experience, so it is good to be here in person. I am the chief executive of the Federation of Scottish Theatre, or FST, as we are known. We are the membership and development body for professional dance, theatre and opera in Scotland. We have recently refreshed our vision in order to better reflect the work of the work of our members. Our vision is of a thriving performing arts sector that is integral to a vibrant, diverse and equitable Scotland. Our mission in helping to achieve that is to advocate for, connect across and lead necessary change within the performing arts in Scotland. We represent more than 200 members in the majority of local authority areas across Scotland, based on all sorts of different scales and working in all sorts of different settings. Some of our members are here giving evidence today. Our members include professional organisations and individuals from national companies, festivals, individual artists creating their own work and those independent producers who support them. We count as members all of Scotland’s professional producing companies and those who provide artist support and work in different ways to create, develop and produce live performance for audiences across Scotland, in the UK and overseas. As I said earlier, thank you for inviting me following the evidence of my colleague Liam Sinclair from Dundee Rep and Scottish Dance Theatre, who was here in September when he was our co-chair, and following our written submission to that inquiry. We are in pretty constant dialogue with our members. At our last members’ meeting, we considered the wider economic landscape for the performing arts and tried to predict the direction in which the budget might go. This week, in another session with our members, we gathered a bit more information to add to the knowledge that we currently have. I will not cover the richness of those discussions verbally today, but I will follow up with a written submission, because there was so much detail that deserves to be shared. To echo what other speakers have said already, our members acknowledge and welcome the £100 million commitment. Given the mood music, it was a surprising announcement and it brought some long-overdue hope to a particularly stark and challenging situation. Everyone acknowledges the hard work that must have been done on negotiating and achieving any increase in budget, given the budgetary pressure across the board. It feels like an excellent start, and we hope that there will be further recognition of the value of and investment in culture in Scotland. Everything points towards a real understanding of the value and benefits of culture at the heart of a progressive and fair Scotland, with sustainability being key. However, as has been said already, how we get there is still a bit grey. At the risk of introducing another phrase that will soon get worn out, the devil is in the detail. That is something that has come up time and again in our conversations, and we see it when reading the analysis from the Scottish Parliament information centre, colleagues such as Culture Counts and others. Our members, the majority of whom are included in the Creative Scotland and other culture budget, are anxious to know exactly what the budget announcement will mean for them in real terms. Having said that, there is a huge appetite for collaboration, and our members have contributed and will continue to contribute in whatever way they can to support a shared vision and actions towards all of that. Your other questions were about improving confidence and responding to challenges. I apologise for jumping to challenges quite so quickly. I guess there is a real concern that we will not see enough new funding in time for it to make the impact that is needed. I do not think that anyone will be surprised to hear that. Again, I do not need to repeat in detail the evidence from the earlier session and what we have been saying during the past three years about the deep and damaging challenges that the sector is facing. When I read our previous submission, the phrase that jumped out was “There is no space closer to the edge to move to.” One of the things that has definitely always been talked about, but has come very much to the fore now, is opportunities for self-employed and freelance artists and practitioners and how they are shrinking drastically and so quickly. People are really struggling to survive. I want to say something about poverty here but I am not sure how well I will express it. It might be a very naive thing for me to say, but I think that it is important not to think about culture as one issue over here and poverty and need as a separate issue over there. The people who work in our industry are experiencing the same economic and social challenges as everyone else. We are not talking about a few less shows here and there, we are talking about the decimation of a workforce in an industry that is at risk, and those who are around this table all understand that. Daily I hear from members and others about another failed funding bid due to extreme competition. That could be the last failed bid that a company can withstand, because it is made up of one or two people working tirelessly, often to deliver highly participative activity in vulnerable communities, when they themselves are in a precarious position. 09:15 On a more positive note, the last conversation that we had with members focused a lot on ambition and the cycle of opportunity. There are examples throughout the submissions that you have received for this meeting—from the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society, the National Galleries of Scotland and others—of how it is a missed opportunity to limit ambition when it could be really transformative. More work being produced at different scales in Scotland would increase employment and improve skills development. It would train and retrain our employed and freelance workforce, lead to higher wages and fairer work and, crucially, secure the ability to stay relevant on the international stage. I have lots more notes, but I will finish there. We can come back on other opportunities in relation to your question about the culture strategy refresh and those kinds of things.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Clare Adamson)
SNP
I wish you a good morning and a warm welcome to the first meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Happy new year...
Lori Anderson (Culture Counts)
Thank you for inviting Culture Counts to return to the committee to provide post-budget evidence. I thank the committee for its work on pre-budget scrutiny a...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. I invite Anne Lyden to make some comments.
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland)
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotla...
The Convener
SNP
I welcome Leonie Bell to the meeting. Our opening questions were about whether the Scottish Government’s budget and the new strategy meet the committee’s rec...
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee)
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online w...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much, Fiona. I will move to Sam, who joins us online.
Sam Dunkley (Musicians Union)
Good morning. Thanks for the invitation to join you today. Reflecting on the budget that was announced, the feeling among our members and colleagues is that...
The Convener
SNP
Shona McCarthy, would you like to come in next?
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this...
Simon Hunt (Scottish Opera)
Thank you for inviting us. My colleagues around the table have made a lot of the points that I wanted to make, so I will focus on the issues that are specifi...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I now call Francesca Hegyi.
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival)
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already b...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you all for your opening contributions. I am now going to move to questions from members. We do not have a lot of time this morning, as we have a secon...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning to the panel. We have heard a lot about the on-going crisis in funding and we have previously discussed the perfect storm that is affecting fund...
Francesca Hegyi
It is sad to see those levels of participation drop off. There are probably two main reasons for that, and you have alighted on the first one, which is that ...
Simon Hunt
We certainly experienced a big drop-off as a result of Covid. There has been a change to audience behaviour and, quite markedly, the quickest to return was o...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea
I want to feed back from the conversations that we have been having recently. The majority of members are saying that there is no doubt that they are having ...
Leonie Bell
We have to analyse it beyond just the culture funding levels and what the culture sector does. We operate in and are deeply attuned to the wider local, natio...
Shona McCarthy
I was going to say pretty much what Leonie Bell has said. It is about people’s disposable income. The impact of the cost of living crisis makes people much c...
Neil Bibby
Lab
Thank you for those answers. A number of you mentioned the local context and local government funding. We have talked about the national budget, and Culture ...
The Convener
SNP
Shona McCarthy mentioned the visitor levy. Do you want to expand on your thoughts on that?
Shona McCarthy
We welcome the visitor levy, as a concept. However, so far, I have mostly seen an ever-growing list of what gaps the levy income might be used to plug. That ...
Lori Anderson
To pick up on Neil Bibby’s point about local authorities, they are another important backbone of the investment in local and regional cultural services and v...
Simon Hunt
I note that this week, south of the border—I have not heard of anything quite so alarming in Scotland—Suffolk County Council announced a 100 per cent reducti...
Sam Dunkley
I have a couple of points. We have had contact from our members to say that they are starting to see local councils revisiting the idea of cutting or vastly ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I thank all the panel members for their candid evidence. I have two questions. The first is about salary costs, and particularly public sector pay awards, wh...
Anne Lyden
To answer that point, yes, the efficiency saving in effect cancels out that money. It feels as though we are being handed a perceived uplift with one hand an...
Francesca Hegyi
On the question about salaries, we are not governed by the same public sector salary requirements. In practice, that means that we often do not pay at the sa...