Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 17 Apr 2026 – 17 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Committee

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 11 January 2024

11 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee) Watch on SPTV
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement is positive. Rather than go over what the organisation does, which most of you will be familiar with—we operate as Scotland’s design museum from Dundee, so we are outwith the central belt—I will reflect on what Lori Anderson and Anne Lyden have just said, and all I can do is agree with them. We all recognise that we are all connected, and we are all experiencing very similar things, albeit in our own contexts. For V&A Dundee, part of the reason why we look different in the report is that, in effect, we are a bit like a start-up. We have had five years of operation, and it has probably taken us those five years to work out what our public subsidy model will be. We make a lot of money from that, which is an important point that many people have made previously. We need to think through what public subsidy is. It is probably the only support that we all get that enables us to cover core activities, but it should also be a platform to enable us to do the sort of activities that Anne Lyden mentioned. At V&A Dundee, within five years we have begun to evidence quite comfortably the significant catalytic impact that we have across economic, social and cultural factors. Therefore, the increase in budget for V&A Dundee gets us into the region of something that starts to demonstrate what our organisation warrants, if that makes sense. We have already gone through three years of really intense working. An intense revision of our programme model significantly reduced what we do on major shows, and at the same time we tried to make more money and to make more free offers. However, the evidence that we demonstrated in our fifth birthday report, which some colleagues will be familiar with, starts to establish what an organisation, when it is funded to a level that gives it a fighting chance, is able to achieve. We are outwith the central belt—it is really important for us to be here giving a voice to organisations that are outwith Glasgow and Edinburgh. I know that I am surrounded by national organisations, but the increase in budget that we have had enables us to look ahead with more positivity than, if I am honest, we have had in the past few years, during which we have had year on year of mitigating measures. Those range from reducing our output to not having any confidence to plan beyond a year ahead. As all organisations will recognise, for us to achieve a show of the scale, quality, impact and local and international relevance of the show “Tartan”, we need four or five years. Overall, there are three things that I think we all want. We want enactment of some of the promises that have been made and a coming together around the powerful narrative of what culture can achieve. As Anne Lyden said, that is for everybody who lives in Scotland, but it is also for everybody who visits. We want a reduction in the gap—we all want to be part of working out how we will do that—and we want to work with Government ministers and officials to look at what can be achieved on multiyear funding, as well as enactment of an increase in the budget. As for ideas for innovation, as a young organisation we have sometimes had no choice but to be extremely entrepreneurial. As commonly happens with new capital programmes, we started with a funding model that was not enough to cover our running costs. Good things have sometimes come from that. We have had to be incredibly entrepreneurial in setting up initiatives such as city-wide cultural recovery funds during Covid, and in establishing long-term relationships with organisations such as The Dalmore. However, we also all know that sometimes the Government then works in a way that creates an impact on that, when we think that that is what we should be doing. That point has previously been rehearsed in the Parliament’s committee rooms and elsewhere. To enable us to be in spaces where our business models can be innovative and entrepreneurial, to build fundamental connections and to spark ideas, we must remember that cultural leaders and chief executives run organisations that are complex beings. We are not just cultural voices and delivering seven-days-a-week operations; we also run catering, retail and event businesses, and more. We need the intellectual space and the energy to produce more ideas. The more ideas we all create, the better is the chance that some will be genuinely transformative. At the moment, none of us has enough time to come together beyond our own organisations, because of the strain that everybody has been working under. My main point is that we are really thankful for the opportunity to work with the Scottish Government over the past few years towards getting us on a much firmer footing than we have ever been on. That work has come at a time that will enable us to look to the longer term with more positivity than we have had. However, like everybody else, we are still dealing with 40 per cent cost increases. For our fifth birthday, our approach was to supercharge the year. We deployed reserves to cover operational costs, and we considered other ways of bringing in money. That meant that we took quite a lot of risks to make V&A Dundee really work in, of and for Dundee, but also for Scotland and, of course, for the nation that Scotland wants to be within the wider European context and internationally. However, to achieve the aims that our organisation achieved last year also takes public subsidy. We are now closer to those aims with the extra £800,000 that we received. We really welcome that, because it gives us a fighting chance of being able to complete our first decade with the same level of economic, social, civic and cultural impacts and to contribute powerfully to the cultural growth of this country. Everyone needs such a fighting chance, though. At the moment we are running businesses and organisations that have been cut to the bone. We just need space to demonstrate what the cultural leadership and workforce of this country are extraordinarily capable of doing, which is to innovate as well as to protect what we already have. That is the balance that we must constantly strike when money is so tight. I am aware that I say this on behalf of a relatively new organisation, but we all want to pursue the new. However, we must also protect what 70-plus years of public investment have created. We must also think deeply about the topography of Scotland. I do not mean that in the sense of asking whether more resource needs to go elsewhere; we need to think of it being “as well as”. For Dundee to thrive, it needs Glasgow and Edinburgh to thrive. I hope that for them to thrive they need Inverness and the islands to thrive. It is not just about the cultural ecology; it is about the geographic, social and economic situation, too. There is so much for us to welcome here. As Anne Lyden and Lori Anderson did, I recognise that people are coming from a very difficult place, having experienced years and years of flat funding and soaring costs that are beyond anything that any of us had imagined. We are in a city of 150,000 people, but we will have 340,000 people through our doors this year. That is the story of what V&A Dundee can achieve, but it could also be the story of what the sector can achieve when it is given a fighting chance.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Adamson) SNP
I wish you a good morning and a warm welcome to the first meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Happy new year...
Lori Anderson (Culture Counts)
Thank you for inviting Culture Counts to return to the committee to provide post-budget evidence. I thank the committee for its work on pre-budget scrutiny a...
The Convener SNP
Thank you. I invite Anne Lyden to make some comments.
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland)
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotla...
The Convener SNP
I welcome Leonie Bell to the meeting. Our opening questions were about whether the Scottish Government’s budget and the new strategy meet the committee’s rec...
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee)
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online w...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Fiona. I will move to Sam, who joins us online.
Sam Dunkley (Musicians Union)
Good morning. Thanks for the invitation to join you today. Reflecting on the budget that was announced, the feeling among our members and colleagues is that...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy, would you like to come in next?
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this...
Simon Hunt (Scottish Opera)
Thank you for inviting us. My colleagues around the table have made a lot of the points that I wanted to make, so I will focus on the issues that are specifi...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much. I now call Francesca Hegyi.
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival)
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already b...
The Convener SNP
Thank you all for your opening contributions. I am now going to move to questions from members. We do not have a lot of time this morning, as we have a secon...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Good morning to the panel. We have heard a lot about the on-going crisis in funding and we have previously discussed the perfect storm that is affecting fund...
Francesca Hegyi
It is sad to see those levels of participation drop off. There are probably two main reasons for that, and you have alighted on the first one, which is that ...
Simon Hunt
We certainly experienced a big drop-off as a result of Covid. There has been a change to audience behaviour and, quite markedly, the quickest to return was o...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea
I want to feed back from the conversations that we have been having recently. The majority of members are saying that there is no doubt that they are having ...
Leonie Bell
We have to analyse it beyond just the culture funding levels and what the culture sector does. We operate in and are deeply attuned to the wider local, natio...
Shona McCarthy
I was going to say pretty much what Leonie Bell has said. It is about people’s disposable income. The impact of the cost of living crisis makes people much c...
Neil Bibby Lab
Thank you for those answers. A number of you mentioned the local context and local government funding. We have talked about the national budget, and Culture ...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy mentioned the visitor levy. Do you want to expand on your thoughts on that?
Shona McCarthy
We welcome the visitor levy, as a concept. However, so far, I have mostly seen an ever-growing list of what gaps the levy income might be used to plug. That ...
Lori Anderson
To pick up on Neil Bibby’s point about local authorities, they are another important backbone of the investment in local and regional cultural services and v...
Simon Hunt
I note that this week, south of the border—I have not heard of anything quite so alarming in Scotland—Suffolk County Council announced a 100 per cent reducti...
Sam Dunkley
I have a couple of points. We have had contact from our members to say that they are starting to see local councils revisiting the idea of cutting or vastly ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I thank all the panel members for their candid evidence. I have two questions. The first is about salary costs, and particularly public sector pay awards, wh...
Anne Lyden
To answer that point, yes, the efficiency saving in effect cancels out that money. It feels as though we are being handed a perceived uplift with one hand an...
Francesca Hegyi
On the question about salaries, we are not governed by the same public sector salary requirements. In practice, that means that we often do not pay at the sa...