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Committee

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee 11 January 2024

11 Jan 2024 · S6 · Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Item of business
Budget Scrutiny 2024-25
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland) Watch on SPTV
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotland. We are custodians of the national art collection, which ranges from art from the middle ages to modern and contemporary art. Through public funding, we provide free access to that collection for the people of Scotland and hold the collection in trust for them. In other words, the budget and the settlement that has come through allow us to do the work that we do for the people of Scotland. We continue to provide free access to the collection through our public offer at our three sites. We offer visits to our stores and loans to other museums and galleries around Scotland, the rest of the United Kingdom and internationally. We recently opened the Scottish galleries to showcase a particular strength of our collection. We have a changing programme of exhibitions here in Edinburgh, but we also tour shows domestically and internationally, and our outreach activities extend across the country to ensure that there is access to and engagement with the national collection. We are also committed to furthering our on-going work in equality, diversity and inclusion with regard to the collection, our people and our offer. We, too, have seen what has already been noted in terms of visitor numbers recovering post pandemic, and our online digital offer continues to grow year on year. That said, although we are able to do all those important activities with Government funding, the reality is that it is becoming more and more challenging to deliver the programmes and activities, because the funding situation is proving to be a challenge for us. The revenue budget increase for National Galleries of Scotland is only 1.8 per cent, once we take into account the 2023-24 spring budget revision for the first year of the pay policy, and there is the 5 per cent public sector reform efficiency reduction to take into account, too. Moreover, although we are expected to pay the second year of the pay increases, we also have increased employer pension contributions to meet. All that is against the same backdrop as everyone is facing, of increased utility costs. Therefore, the settlement, as presented to us, makes the path to a balanced budget very challenging, and we are currently working through the impacts on and options for how we deliver services in 2024-25. Echoing some of the sentiments that have already been shared, I would say that this is the reality of several years of underfunding of the arts and culture sector. It goes all the way back to the financial crash of 2008, which impacted on the budgets of NGS and many other organisations in a way that they have just never recovered from. If you look at the evidence from about 2011 onwards, you will see that, taking out the Government pay policy allocation and the variable elements of capital funding, we have had basically level funding since about 2011. That is challenging, with costs continuing to go up, but we are still committed to delivering what we need to deliver for the people of Scotland, and to safeguarding the national collections. However, although we are acting on behalf of Scottish ministers to make the collection available to people into the future, the reality is that 95 per cent of our grant in aid goes on our salary bill. That leaves only 5 per cent for the rest of our activities—activities that have a positive impact on Scottish life, health and wellbeing, and the arts and culture. We are not alone in this—indeed, I am surrounded by colleagues from other institutions and other parts of the sector—but the fact is that a high proportion of fixed and unavoidable costs arises from securing and caring for our priceless and world-class national collections. We also have to factor in the high costs of maintaining the buildings, estate and infrastructure that go along with them, and of our desire, ambition and obligation to meet a carbon-neutral future. Although I am representing NGS, those challenges are shared by other national collections such as the National Library of Scotland and National Museums Scotland. Those organisations are not represented at this meeting but, like NGS, they are basically facing a challenge in how to balance their budgets, going forward. There will be difficult decisions for all of us as to what that looks like. 09:00 To pick up on the earlier comments on the wider museums and galleries sector, I note that the funding situation across the board is not ideal, which is of concern for all of us, because we are all part of an ecosystem and we work together very much in collaboration and partnership. If the funding is not balanced across the board, we all bear the impact of that. We will hear more from Creative Scotland later, but we are all connected. For us to truly deliver on what the people of Scotland deserve, adequate funding is required, and we would welcome multiyear funding.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Adamson) SNP
I wish you a good morning and a warm welcome to the first meeting in 2024 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Happy new year...
Lori Anderson (Culture Counts)
Thank you for inviting Culture Counts to return to the committee to provide post-budget evidence. I thank the committee for its work on pre-budget scrutiny a...
The Convener SNP
Thank you. I invite Anne Lyden to make some comments.
Anne Lyden (National Galleries of Scotland)
Thank you for inviting me along this morning. This is my first week in my new role, and I am very happy to be here, representing National Galleries of Scotla...
The Convener SNP
I welcome Leonie Bell to the meeting. Our opening questions were about whether the Scottish Government’s budget and the new strategy meet the committee’s rec...
Leonie Bell (V&A Dundee)
I apologise for being slightly late. Thank you for having V&A Dundee here this morning. As people have probably seen, V&A Dundee’s budget settlement...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea (Federation of Scottish Theatre)
I thank the committee for inviting me here. This is my second time at a committee meeting, but the first time was during the Covid pandemic. Meeting online w...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Fiona. I will move to Sam, who joins us online.
Sam Dunkley (Musicians Union)
Good morning. Thanks for the invitation to join you today. Reflecting on the budget that was announced, the feeling among our members and colleagues is that...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy, would you like to come in next?
Shona McCarthy (Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society)
I thank the committee for having the Edinburgh Festival Fringe Society here this morning—it is great to be here. I promised myself that I would approach this...
Simon Hunt (Scottish Opera)
Thank you for inviting us. My colleagues around the table have made a lot of the points that I wanted to make, so I will focus on the issues that are specifi...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much. I now call Francesca Hegyi.
Francesca Hegyi OBE (Edinburgh International Festival)
Thank you for inviting me back. Because I have the privilege of speaking last, you can almost guarantee that everything that I was going to say has already b...
The Convener SNP
Thank you all for your opening contributions. I am now going to move to questions from members. We do not have a lot of time this morning, as we have a secon...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Good morning to the panel. We have heard a lot about the on-going crisis in funding and we have previously discussed the perfect storm that is affecting fund...
Francesca Hegyi
It is sad to see those levels of participation drop off. There are probably two main reasons for that, and you have alighted on the first one, which is that ...
Simon Hunt
We certainly experienced a big drop-off as a result of Covid. There has been a change to audience behaviour and, quite markedly, the quickest to return was o...
Fiona Sturgeon Shea
I want to feed back from the conversations that we have been having recently. The majority of members are saying that there is no doubt that they are having ...
Leonie Bell
We have to analyse it beyond just the culture funding levels and what the culture sector does. We operate in and are deeply attuned to the wider local, natio...
Shona McCarthy
I was going to say pretty much what Leonie Bell has said. It is about people’s disposable income. The impact of the cost of living crisis makes people much c...
Neil Bibby Lab
Thank you for those answers. A number of you mentioned the local context and local government funding. We have talked about the national budget, and Culture ...
The Convener SNP
Shona McCarthy mentioned the visitor levy. Do you want to expand on your thoughts on that?
Shona McCarthy
We welcome the visitor levy, as a concept. However, so far, I have mostly seen an ever-growing list of what gaps the levy income might be used to plug. That ...
Lori Anderson
To pick up on Neil Bibby’s point about local authorities, they are another important backbone of the investment in local and regional cultural services and v...
Simon Hunt
I note that this week, south of the border—I have not heard of anything quite so alarming in Scotland—Suffolk County Council announced a 100 per cent reducti...
Sam Dunkley
I have a couple of points. We have had contact from our members to say that they are starting to see local councils revisiting the idea of cutting or vastly ...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I thank all the panel members for their candid evidence. I have two questions. The first is about salary costs, and particularly public sector pay awards, wh...
Anne Lyden
To answer that point, yes, the efficiency saving in effect cancels out that money. It feels as though we are being handed a perceived uplift with one hand an...
Francesca Hegyi
On the question about salaries, we are not governed by the same public sector salary requirements. In practice, that means that we often do not pay at the sa...