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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 December 2023

20 Dec 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I thank the committee clerks and all those who have been involved in the bill. This is a technical bill, but it will have real impacts on people’s lives. I hope that it will prevent situations such as what happened at McClure Solicitors. McClure went into administration two years ago, and the victims of McClure Solicitors action group held a meeting in the Parliament to raise awareness among MSPs of the serious issues that McClure clients face. Many of them have family protection trusts, wills, lasting powers of attorney and the like. An estimated 100,000 clients were affected, and the vast majority of those people are totally unaware of the issues that stem from McClure going into administration.

Clients who have trusts with McClure Solicitors as trustees often cannot sell assets because the solicitors are still on land registry records. That will result in some properties standing empty for two to five years, which will force families to maintain properties without being able to take action such as selling or renting them. Campaigners for the victims action group highlighted issues with accessing and understanding documents. Many of the clients are elderly, and often their children or close family are left trying to make sense of everything while they have responsibility for looking after elderly parents or—worse—while they are going through a period of grief.

Campaigners spoke of having to pay £750 in administration fees to get McClure’s trustees to sign off trusts at the same time as they received letters from solicitors trying to indemnify McClure and its associates from any future legal action. The campaigners’ experience highlights the human impact of what happens when trusts are not appropriately administered or managed.

Lessons must be learned and processes must be put in place to ensure that that does not happen again. I hope that the bill will do that, but those who have been impacted by McClure need help now. I ask the Scottish Government to look at the issue, because Police Scotland and the Law Society of Scotland will not get involved, and the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission will not get involved. Someone needs to set up an investigation to ensure that those who are affected are assisted properly and get the appropriate settlement to their concerns.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11699, in the name of Siobhian Brown, on the Trusts and Succession (Scotland) Bill. 16:30
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown) SNP
I thank the members of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee for their thoughtful and helpful consideration of the Trusts and Succession (Scotland) B...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate and to confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will support the bill at decision time. As the minister outlined, this is ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee clerks and all those who have been involved in the bill. This is a technical bill, but it will have real impacts on people’s lives. I h...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
The victims of McClure’s state that most people who have been let down by McClure’s do not yet know that they are victims and that the situation is vastly un...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I absolutely agree with Bob Doris and I pay tribute to him for giving voice to the victims of McClure’s and inviting them to Parliament to speak to MSPs. I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 16:46
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
First, I will touch on the McClure situation. I raised it in the committee because constituents, some of whom have been seriously affected, came to me with t...
Bob Doris SNP
Hear! Hear!
Stuart McMillan SNP
Thank you. I thank those who contributed to the committee’s scrutiny of the bill, whether in writing or by appearing before the committee during one of the ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I begin by thanking the Scottish Law Commission for its detailed and technical work during more than a decade on the different elements of the bill. I am gra...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, I spoke in the stage 1 debate on the Trusts and Successions (Scotland) Bill in September. It is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Like hitting the microphone with your papers, there are various ways of gaining the Parliament’s attention. We now move to closing speeches. 16:58
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I think that the most recent attempt at awakening the chamber was more successful than your whacking the microphone earlier, Deputy Presiding Officer. Scott...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I hope that members will be able to hear some of the speech from where I am taking part in the debate this afternoon. I am pleased to be able to speak in tod...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I ask Siobhian Brown to wind up. 17:04
Siobhian Brown SNP
I thank the members who have contributed to the debate. There is a general consensus that the law on trusts is outdated, and the changes that are proposed in...