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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 December 2023

19 Dec 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Ukrainians in Scotland
Brown, Keith SNP Clackmannanshire and Dunblane Watch on SPTV

It is two years since the invasion began, and much of the talk about the invasion in the media now, particularly in the light of other world events, is about war fatigue—the idea that public willingness to support Ukraine in the west is somehow beginning to slow down. I hope that that is not the case, and today’s debate is a chance for us to show that it is not the case here in Scotland. We need to show that we are reiterating our commitment as a nation to supporting the independence of Ukraine, first on its own merits, but also in order to protect human life. It is absolutely right that the motion states that clearly.

In relation to unity and consensus, I regret that there are comments in the amendments that are critical of the situation, noting the points that I have made about how slow the UK was to open its borders, the fact that support has been taken away from local authorities and that Scotland has managed to accommodate around 20 per cent of all Ukrainians who have come to the UK. If we are going to make wider points, that undermines the ability to adopt a consensual approach.

Although we may feel powerless in the face of these huge events, there is of course action that we can take as individuals, as Alex Cole-Hamilton mentioned. For my part, I took in a Ukrainian family. I thought that I would end up with an older gentleman—someone too old to serve in the war—but I in fact ended up with a family, including two children and a dog. I had them in my home for a number of months this year and we managed, over that time, to find new accommodation and employment for them, which is very commendable. The children of the family received one-to-one English lessons at school, which was necessary, and the adults undertook language lessons, too. It was interesting to have them come back and ask me about the meanings of words like “drookit” and “dreich”—both of which they seemed to master, although they could not quite get the meaning of “nae bother” until we explained it. Anyway, they were given some Scots language teaching, too.

In October last year, Ukrainian refugees in my constituency organised a fair as part of their celebrations of Ukrainian Cossack day. I cannot speak for every Ukrainian refugee in Scotland, but it is my view that most of them have received a very warm Scottish welcome, with Scotland taking in 26,200 displaced Ukrainians, the most per head of any UK nation. I think that that is worthy of comment and commendation. For those who choose to continue to make Scotland their home, we must turn that into a warm Scottish future. The policy position paper recognises the need to work across the different layers of government.

Many members have mentioned Edinburgh. In my area, Clackmannanshire Council, a small council, won an award last year for its refugee integration scheme, so that is the right approach to take. The same approach now needs to be taken by the UK Government, and it needs to provide clarity on what happens when the three-year visa period that is available to Ukrainian refugees comes to an end. Paul O’Kane spoke about that, and I will mention a text that I got from a constituent of mine. They have now been rehoused, and they have the opportunity to move into social housing. Paul O’Kane rightly said that we should hear the voices of Ukrainians. My constituent says that, last week, they went to view social housing that had been offered to them, which was half the price of the accommodation that they were currently in. They had to accept it within a day, however. It is a three-bedroom house for a monthly fee of half of what they currently pay, but it requires complete renovation, painting and carpeting. All that work must be done before they can get the 15 months before the rent freeze starts. They also have to buy a freezer, washing machine, cooking stove and so on.

That is difficult in any event, but to do that work without knowing whether they will still have the right to stay in the country in a year’s time is virtually impossible. The same inhibition affects the Scottish Government. How can it be asked to make long-term plans if it does not have the security of knowing that those who are currently here have the right to stay? There needs to be reassurance and an understanding of the trauma that refugees have been through in the first place. That trauma is compounded by not letting them know that they will be safe to stay here if that is what they require and want to do.

The uncertainty that I know is causing distress for Ukrainians also prevents local authorities and third sector organisations such as Forth Valley Welcome in my constituency from adequately planning services, as they do not know how long people will be able to stay in Scotland, or if there is a risk of displaced people being made destitute under UK rules.

I urge the UK Government to step up to support Ukrainian refugees, as the people of Scotland have done. I say to colleagues that, by supporting the motion, we can show that Scotland, and all the political parties in it, remain committed to Ukrainian independence and supporting Ukrainian lives, whether they are here in Scotland or in Ukraine. I urge members to support the motion in the cabinet secretary’s name.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11696, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on from a warm Scots welcome to a warm Scots future for Uk...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I am pleased to speak once again on support for Ukraine and the delivery of a warm Scots future for its people here in Scotland. As 2023 draws to a close, it...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I gently remind those members who intend to speak in the debate but have not yet pressed their request-to-speak buttons to do so now, or as soon as possible....
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome this debate and the opportunity, which the cabinet secretary mentioned, for Parliament to reaffirm in the strongest possible terms our solidarity w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Paul O’Kane to speak to and move amendment S6M-11696.1. You have around five minutes, Mr O’Kane. 16:44
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It has been 663 days since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022, and it has been 3,589 days since Ukraine’s sovereignty was first violated ...
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
In the interests of a more rounded debate, will the member acknowledge that some of the issues with housing came about because the UK took so long to open it...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You may have the time back.
Paul O’Kane Lab
I am grateful, Presiding Officer. I would not deny much of what Mr Brown has said about the challenges that there have been with UK support and ensuring tha...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I declare an interest, having been a sponsor or host under the homes for Ukraine scheme for nine months and also having been placed under official sanction b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 16:56
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
It is two years since the invasion began, and much of the talk about the invasion in the media now, particularly in the light of other world events, is about...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The time that we had in hand has pretty much been exhausted, so I would be grateful if members could stick to their speaking time allocations. 17:01
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Christmas is the perfect time to have this debate, because it reminds us how much Ukrainian people’s lives have been upturned by Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukra...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I declare an interest as a member of the cross-party group on Ukraine. I welcome the comments about Colin Beattie setting that up in the Parliament. I am als...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
In February 2022, when Vladimir Putin launched his brutal, all-out invasion of Ukraine, which was the worst escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian war since it be...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
In a desperate attempt to be consensual, I note that the quote about “four times” is actually a UK figure and is not really replicated in Scotland. I am not ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you some of that time back, Mr Sweeney.
Paul Sweeney Lab
As my colleague Paul O’Kane intimated, we rely on the briefing by the Red Cross for that information. If the cabinet secretary were to furnish us with equiva...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
Will Paul Sweeney take an intervention on that point?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The member cannot give way. He is beginning to wind up.
Paul Sweeney Lab
I am afraid that I do not have time to address that point in detail with Bob Doris, but that is a fine example of the haphazard approach to planning. Althoug...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
The war in Ukraine continues to shock, upset and worry us. We continue to feel and share great admiration for the people of Ukraine as they continue to fight...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Just a week ago, we were here discussing the human rights of asylum seekers in Scotland. Many colleagues highlighted the important contribution that asylum s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Maggie Chapman Green
—and are equally able to contribute to Scotland’s future.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Again, I encourage members to stick to their allocated speaking time. 17:23
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in the debate in support of the Scottish Government’s strategy to help Ukrainians living in Scotland to settle in communities and gain ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Sadly, in recent years, we have witnessed numerous international crises that have displaced millions globally, including the situation in Afghanistan, the on...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the closing speeches. 17:31